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Thread: "The Point" talks about The Zeitgeist Movement, Jan 5th 2013

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    "The Point" talks about The Zeitgeist Movement, Jan 5th 2013

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8XRW...njfkdw&index=1

    We can envision a better world, but are there steps we can take to enact real change? Is there a future in which different cultures can truly peacefully coexist? Does the media cause us as a society to be close-minded and resistent to meaningful change? And lastly, is it possible that sex and changing views of sex have the power to make the world a better place overall?

    Ana Kasparian (Host, The Point and Co-host of The Young Turks) lead this weeks panel to discuss these issues and more with Ramesh Srinivasan (Professor, Information Studies at UCLA), Sikivu Hutchinson (Activist, Author of Moral Combat) and Tom Shadyac (Film Maker, Director of Ace Ventura: Pet Detective, Liar Liar, and more). Special thanks to Peter Joseph of the Zeitgeist Movement and Christopher Ryan, author of Sex at Dawn for sending in points.

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    By what I hear so far they are still thinking in the box. They can't even climb out of the box to look around.

    Nor have they studied history. They did not talk of the movement hardly at all but what they know.
    Last edited by FancyKat Artist; 01-11-2013 at 04:50 PM.

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    I was very disappointed with this panel discussion. These people are like most. Too conditioned by their environment to consider a new paradigm.

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    Oh my... the show is called "The Point", and I'm guessing that's supposed to imply that each panellist only has one point to bring up, because that's what happened:
    Ana Kasparian - "Hey guys can you please tell me your opinions about things?"
    Ramesh Srinivasan - "This TZM I only heard of 5 seconds ago is talking big philosophical nonsense and only little grass-roots movements will change anything."
    Sikivu Hutchinson - "Black women created every social change ever ever."
    Tom Shadyac - "Hurr, durrr, I made a film."
    I'm heavily paraphrasing, of course, but I want those 24 minutes of my life back...

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    As to be expected of people with Social "Science" and Liberal Arts degrees, they are completely missing the actual Point.
    How ironic is that.

    And what's up with Sikivu Hutchinson bringing up black women?
    I didn't see at all how that related to the topic.

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    I really don't see how a social sciene or lib art degree inherently makes you not get the RBE idea. This is just a bunch of moderatley intelligent people who didn't bother to research the topic because they're not interested in understanding, they want to get a debate going and boost ratings. Because that is their job. A lot of debating shows are similar, with the hosts asking stupid questions or saying things that make no sense to anyone with even a little knowledge, sometimes intentionally trying to provoke. They usually have one or more new 'hot topics' to debate each episode, and there's no way they're actually gonna do research. That's it. Don't make this about some sort of 'only logical people / engineers get this!' kind of discourse, or whatever.

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    Yeah, the panel members didn't exactly give me the impression that they've seen the movies or watched any of the lectures on line. Each person stayed in their comfort zone and talked about their professions. Too bad their wasn't a TZM representative at the table giving out more information.

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    The aim was set out at the beginning, and it happens as often in everyday conversation: How can we politely illustrate that my idea is better than this idea? The west has an automatic argument template in place for their contributions to problem-solving. Solutions are as presented the best idea, example, etc. (ex. selling yourself for a job, promoting a product, auditions, the way to fix this engine...) and must overtake other ideas. So to get to validating their own works, they must do the decorum of either conceding the point (no pun) that we do have some fundamental changes necessary in this world, or dismiss it.

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    I have a hard time understanding the talk. Correct me if I misinterpreted something.

    Ramesh 05:35 - 06:52
    Interpretation: Saying that [mentioned earlier] issues are inherent is dismissive of today's people efforts.
    My response: I think it's important in what context activism works. Consider the story of Sisyphus: "Hey, Sisyphus you'll never push the boulder up that hill. Shut up! You're dismissing his efforts!"

    Sikivu 07:24 - 09:04
    Interpretation: Focus on what people are doing in their local environment.

    Tom 09:06 - 10:00
    Interpretation: Change people not system.
    My response: Here it's more an argument about definition of a system.

    Ramesh 10:00 - 11:15
    Interpretation: Change comes from the grass roots.

    11:15 - 13:36
    Interpretation: What catastrophe is necessary for real change?
    My response: check here

    Tom 13:37 - 14:18
    I think he's spot on here. Structures that we see in the world are outgrowth of our mindsets.

    Sikivu 14:19 - 16:23
    Interpretation: Occupy have not addressed economic discrimination of the afro-american. You can't have change until you address white supremacist legacy.
    My response: What is the source of that supremacist beliefs? In short - competition.

    Tom 16:26 - 17:12
    Interpretation: We have not yet realised that we're all one and connected.
    My response: Again I agree.

    Tom 17:53 - 19:34
    Interpretation: I don't believe consumerism is inherent. Contribution is the source of happiness.
    My response: Again I agree.

    Ramesh 19:34 - 20:40
    Interpretation: You can learn a lot by working.
    My response: I have no idea what was his point here.

    Sikivu 20:40 - 21:52
    Interpretation: New movements are learning from the old movements.

    21:52 - 23:11
    Interpretation: This country was once about helping people. Change John Bayner by social pressure.

    Tom 23:11 - 23:48
    Interpretation: show people in government that we've got alternative.
    Last edited by Bartek_Bialy; 01-21-2013 at 01:31 PM.

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    Tom 13:37 - 14:18
    I think he's spot on here. Structures that we see in the world are outgrowth of our mindsets.



    What creates the mindset in the first place? A capitalist mindset was not possible in Middle Age Europe; a feminist mindset was not possible in Ancient Sparta, etc. While our mindsets do indeed shape the world, since they inspire our actions, we must not neglect that what mindset people have in shaped by the material reality of their surroundings and history.



    What is the source of that supremacist beliefs? In short - competition.


    Incorrect. Racist and supremacist thoughts where around long before capitalist competition. Indeed, national cooperation for the goodness of the Nation is one of the tenents of national-socialism.


    We have not yet realised that we're all one and connected.

    Pseudo-spiritual babble. What does that even mean concretely? What is the political potential of such a belief?

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