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Thread: Idea for Implementation of a Test City

  1. #11
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    I disagree,

    The person who invented the lightbulb didn't run around trying to convince people to make it, those who made the first airoplane either, no-one is bothered until they SEE results.
    We can make that happen sooner than most think.
    Like I said, PHP programmers are needed, media ppl to make short clips.
    TZM is making the GRI, good, let's make the first building blocks of the city.

    I'll discuss the plan a bit later. But I reckon there is a step by step plan we can take to make this work, neil, you there?

  2. #12
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    Yes, I'm here;I'm reading responses but can't reply to them thoroughly right now. I'll reply to you guys as soon as I can to discuss this further. What I want to do is quickly sketch up a drawing of the layout of a few simple things (outer test city A, inner test city B location and shape within city B, location of airports, freeways, locations of other significant areas, etc) and post it in the thread.

  3. #13
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    Having a city B to limit outside opposition is a smart idea. If a stand-alone self sufficient city was created then there would be great opposition to it from commercial industries. Especially since it would be giving out free stuff. There are already issues in some areas about giving food and water out without the 'proper permits'. Or even growing foods that have been patented. e.g. GMO seeds. Having that buffer between the cities would reduce the opposition substantially.

    However, it's still important to ensure commercialization doesn't encroach on city A. Work backwards from the end goal accounting for all the major forms of resistance this project would receive.

    As for something more recent and smaller scale
    http://seedstock.com/2013/02/21/rath...rld/#more-6667

    Last edited by Genanmer; 02-22-2013 at 09:25 PM. Reason: added link

  4. #14
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    Well, we should absolutely avoid GMO anyway, but I understand your point.

    Did anyone read my post about starting small?, and using design ideas to get a kickstarter project going? We can prove alot with small examples. Also, we can use the smaller community not to give OUT things for free, as with any city, we have citizens, and at the begining you can't realistically just dish things out, even supermarket chains would be bankrupt in weeks if it dropped all prices to zero. Think about this, but what we can do is harvest crops, some biofules for example, and generate income for the project while it's being implemented.

    The two cities are a great idea, but we ARE talking about CITIES here, and though planning is fine, think about how much there would be to learn just to implement a small community.
    I'm not loosing it here, but you can set up the community legally as a business, or operate it as one, and sell some of it's produce, as without a doubt at first it WILL need outside materials / components / devices / labor, etc. That they will have a cost.

    Also, technically, we shouldn't really design a city, the design would most likely be a flop, and look "waaaaaay out there", Jack Fresco already has cities designed, though getting the idea of city A and B might do good. The cities themselves are waaaay off.
    Last edited by freeUsAll; 02-22-2013 at 06:47 PM. Reason: afterthoughts

  5. #15
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    1. Paraguay would be a good location. How much does it cost per hectare? Also, which region (North West, South West, North East, South East)?
    2. We cannot use TVP designs. They are the legal property of Jacque and Roxanne. We must design our own energy efficient buildings and integrate the whole into a self-sustaining, nonpolluting, energy generating, and aesthetically pleasing city system.
    3. All the details must be worked out before the first ounce of soil is moved: sewage systems, biofuel production, electric production, distribution of goods and services, a constitution should probably be written guaranteeing each donor a lifetime rights to dwell there, education/mentoring, what level of technology each resident is entitled to, a plan for public parks and green zones, etc. And don't forget disaster preparedness as well.

    Saying it doesn't have to be planned is all very well and good but when the reality of feeding, clothing, providing clean water and modern accommodations to thousands of people hits you'd better be ready with plans and backup plans.
    Sol and Dev like this.

  6. #16
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    Step at a time

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldCitizenUSA View Post
    1. Paraguay would be a good location. How much does it cost per hectare? Also, which region (North West, South West, North East, South East)?
    2. We cannot use TVP designs. They are the legal property of Jacque and Roxanne. We must design our own energy efficient buildings and integrate the whole into a self-sustaining, nonpolluting, energy generating, and aesthetically pleasing city system.
    3. All the details must be worked out before the first ounce of soil is moved: sewage systems, biofuel production, electric production, distribution of goods and services, a constitution should probably be written guaranteeing each donor a lifetime rights to dwell there, education/mentoring, what level of technology each resident is entitled to, a plan for public parks and green zones, etc. And don't forget disaster preparedness as well.

    Saying it doesn't have to be planned is all very well and good but when the reality of feeding, clothing, providing clean water and modern accommodations to thousands of people hits you'd better be ready with plans and backup plans.
    Hi, having watched the battle michael reynolds had in New Mexico, Paraguay is definately a good location.

    Ok, so we can't use TVP Designs (great, so this is still all about money, not sharing knowledge).

    3. What I mean by not plan everything is this: Start really small!!! A small comunity of 10 to 20 houses MAX, with basics, energy production, and food production.
    And not even resembling the final plan (the end game of a large city). There's probably about 100.000 pages and sketches for a city of any size, if not more, and we're talking 1000's of engineers, 100's of architects, (not to mention they either, have our mentality, and work in free time, or get paid.. millions in total).

    So my point is, get a SMALL community going, (yeah, this already exists, the diference is this: The internet community is the driving force for this communities evolution, focusing on automation. There will be a whole team of volunteers working on solving problems that arise (technical), but please, start out small then get bigger. No city is "planted" and then just works. I'm working on some software that would help with logical decision making and problem solution, but I could really do with some help as time is always a factor, if you know php give us a shout!

    peace for all!
    Dev likes this.

  7. #17
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    We still have a problem that needs addressing before we do anything else.

    If we find certain aspects of our society corrupt (by corrupt I mean not doing what they were intended to do), and thease corrupted aspects are a representation of our understanding. Then replacing the corrupted aspects of society does us no good. If we don't first find the source of that corruption within our own understanding, anything we attempt to build will be built with this corruption leaving us in the same place.
    1. Always remember that I am just a crazy guy from the internet.
    2. Always remember I am the Devil, the destroyer, the deciever, always protect yourself.
    3. Always remember my itention is to be the purest representation of all I understand that is "good" (for lack of a better word)

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assassin_twk View Post
    We still have a problem that needs addressing before we do anything else.

    If we find certain aspects of our society corrupt (by corrupt I mean not doing what they were intended to do), and thease corrupted aspects are a representation of our understanding. Then replacing the corrupted aspects of society does us no good. If we don't first find the source of that corruption within our own understanding, anything we attempt to build will be built with this corruption leaving us in the same place.
    No, right now people may be manipulated on a mass scale because they live in a system that allows corruption, this sytem still exists because people dont see an alternative, there is no other way to live, or there is.. but you have to live on a farm! And "giant future cities are for the future...".
    Corruption is everywhere, it is part of ourselves that has not evolved yet, it might be our immature thoguht processes, getting gain quickly at the expense of others it doesn't matter.

    But if the system were to change, or people were to see that another reality CAN exist, they would adopt the new system, so long as it didn't have HUGE drawbacks.. or maybe none.
    A fair system would discourage corruption, and stop it in it's tracks in some cases. So no.. you dont have to understand the human mind just to start a project that can change human thihking.
    Last edited by freeUsAll; 02-25-2013 at 07:18 PM. Reason: typo's

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeusAll
    it might be our immature thoguht processes
    Now we are getting somewhere. Immature is an applicable concept, but it is to broad in scope to help in idenifying what the problem is. It is useful in helping us determine that a problem existed (always a reasonable place to start when seeking a solution).

    I have an anology I've been working on for awhile, it is not what I would consider to be a working tool yet, but it will highlight something I feel may be useful to us.

    If you draw a single directional line on a piece of paper, you have a single directional line represented in a dual directional space. If we give this line a level of understanding, "it's a line that goes in one direction", it will continue being just that, oblivious to the concept of left or right, even while existing in 2 directional space. Until something happens, it doesn't matter what that something is, only that it cuases some slight deviation in direction. If the line notices this it becomes aware of something outside it's single direction understanding. it has no structure to support any understanding of 2 directional things so the awareness fades. In time, through continued exposure, this fleeting awareness will find a foothold, maybe 1 direction at any given time is close enough, and allow some aspect of it to resonate within the single directional line so that the awareness last longer, before fading. Eventually, this awareness grows into an understanding of left and right, and the single directional line is free of it's single directional existance. Now we can imagine this (now two directional line) exploring 2 directions until it runs into itself. Now it is possible for the line to recognize that it has been here before, trying to solve a 2 directional puzzle when all it understood was 1 direction, and make the leap to up and down. Or, it can continue turning left and right, further restricting it's area of freedom until it is forced to make the leap, or cease being even a 1 directional line.

    I think this is where we are. We are facing a new level of awareness. We have all this junk that we created while exploring our current level of understanding. Most of which (I predict) will turn out to be all but useless within this new level of understanding.

    There are a couple things I think we can rely on.
    1. The first thing we find when we open the door will be something we put there. So lets make it something usefull.
    2. If we look back in the past to other times similar to this, if we are mindful of all the junk (complexity) our exploring created (that in the end was getting in our way). We can create our way through this with (at a minimum) much less pain and suffering.
    Last edited by Assassin_twk; 02-25-2013 at 09:53 PM.
    1. Always remember that I am just a crazy guy from the internet.
    2. Always remember I am the Devil, the destroyer, the deciever, always protect yourself.
    3. Always remember my itention is to be the purest representation of all I understand that is "good" (for lack of a better word)

  10. #20
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    Your anology sounds very much like left and right in politics, where's there is really an up and down too!. Ok, so left means more freedom, and right means more restriction.
    But they probably both play into the same system (one dimensional). But I beleive the line can be teased out of it's rutt, or in this analogy, you could use a very powerful magnet to shift the particles of graphite the line is made of. otherways would be folding the line in half, which would be equivalent to an extreme crisis that would FORCE the line in another direction.

    Yet another approach would be to start drawing circles and other shapes all around the line... so the line was able to move freely, into these other awarenesses, and this is where I'm coming from, lead by example. Cudos for the explanation of your analogy, as it's not always easy to explain a "vision".

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