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Thread: The Project for a New Global Millennium

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    The Project for a New Global Millennium

    Aloha all from Hilo, Hawaii
    This is my first post on this forum. I have been working offline in isolation for several years developing a strategy to mitigate global warming. The impetus for my undertaking this project was witnessing firsthand the sea level rise. I live a few minutes walk from the beach and walk there several times a day. I am intimately familiar with my environs. Several years ago I began witnessing inundation during high tides of areas that were once above the high tide line. Over the years since then I have monitored the steady progress of the situation. Make no mistake about it, we are facing a clear and present danger, an existential threat. I was attracted to this project as it shares so many similarities with my own.
    One of the criticisms I came across regarding the works of Jaques Fresco is that he has never actualized any of his plans other than a few small buildings near Venus, Florida. Some have labeled his works Utopian. Whereas utopia literally means "not a place", I choose the term eutopia, "an ideal place. Regardless of labels, we are still faced with the question of how to get from here to there. I have been working on a business plan to do just that. Mr. Fresco's project would be the final outcome of my project. My project would serve as an interim to realizing his end, a pathway to his goals. I think I have found in the Zeitgeist Movement like minded souls who may be able to offer valuable criticism of my project. If there is any interest I would like to use this forum to discuss my plans.
    Thank you
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    Post some details on the project. Many of us have our own projects going on. I wont say much about mine since this is not my thread. But at the very least I have achieved 2 very important things that I 'presumed' I would never ever get to ever achieving ever.

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    Welcome Jody

    Feel free to share your plans. We are living in Desperate Times and we need everyone to participate.

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    This is from a grant application i wanted to submit until i found i needed 501c3 status. I am looking into that now as well as forming a business plan. I have since modified it to include an exoskelatal load bearing geodesic dome internally supported by the pyramid structures discussed in this piece. It is rather lengthy so I'll post it in increments. Any feedback would be appreciated. thank you

    The Solution

    This work is informed by many sources yet there is one in particular which was instrumental. Published in 1968, Ekistics, an Introduction to the Science of Human Settlements, states that the primary goal of ekistics is human happiness. The reader of his work will notice that my solution deviates a bit from his guidelines yet I think they would agree with me and thinking that Constantinos Doxiadis, the author, would applaud my solution given the circumstances we face. Yet if I have strayed too far, I have adhered to the philosopher's primary goal, human happiness, and have devised a system to facilitate that end. I strongly feel that with this system we can meet the crisis and come out thriving.

    This plan advocates housing humanity in large buildings, pyramids, in four sizes. One large pyramid is surrounded by six of smaller size. They are connected by rail each of the six buildings is surrounded by six more buildings of the next smaller size. And each of the six or surrounded by six of the smallest size. All are connected by light rail.

    There are 259 buildings in this scheme that houses approximately 2 million inhabitants. With this layout distribution of power, water and sewage and other goods and services can be conducted with a minimum of infrastructure per capita. The smallest buildings are the communities primary agricultural units they would also serve as bedroom communities for workers in industries unsuitable for co-location with residences. These would be concerns such as foundries and cotton gin's, etc. They would also serve as residences for telecommuting workers with rural interests, a code writer with equestrian interests, for example, wanting to live near her horse.

    As agricultural products are harvested they can be conveyed to the next higher tier communities for value adding processes. Pasta manufacturing, juicing and canning, cloth weaving are examples. These third tier communities would also host amenities suitable for itself and its satellites. These would be schools, medical and dental facilities, nightlife options and other entertainment venues.

    The second-tier buildings would house light and medium industrial operations such as garment and furniture manufacturing. And like the third tier communities they would host services appropriate for the population in its satellites.

    The largest building, the central pyramid would host the administration center as well as those amenities suitable for the community at large. These would be the University, hospitals, very large sports and concert venues and things like amusement parks. This would also be an ideal location for warehouses and cold storage facilities. The central pyramid will serve as the transportation hub to outside communities. The layout of the community constitutes the most efficient system for the production and distribution of material goods today. Many of the symptoms of our errant Orthodox economic ideology will be eliminated. An example of this would be the continuous remanufacture of our containers. Whereas with our current system this is monetarily advantageous, yet it is not ecologically sound. Containers of all kinds be standardized and reusable. This means everything from beer and soda bottles, toothpaste tubes and shampoo bottles, jelly jars and butter tubs. It would also include large food-service containers which could be constructed as large stainless steel pots in which to store the food heat it, and from which it is served. Once emptied it would be cleaned and reused.

    In our current society, human waste is co-mingled with other waste before it is treated. This makes it undesirable to redistribute in the fields from which it came as it frequently is contaminated with heavy metals and chemicals. It would require massive changes to the infrastructure to do otherwise. Because we are starting from scratch this should be taken into consideration at the very outset. The integrated urban/rural design facilitates this, sound economic and ecological theory demand it. Sewage would be pumped to treatment facilities which would consist of an array of digesters. Methane would be harvested from them as the material decomposed. The digested material would be free of pathogens and rich in nutrients, suitable to be used as fertilizer.

    Non-petrochemical farming practices, or organic farming as it is known, has the economic disadvantage of being somewhat more labor intensive. Petrochemical-based farming is monetarily advantageous yet economically unsound in that it promotes soil degradation. It allows farmers to forgo the age-old practice of planting the manure crops and allowing them to be grazed or planting nitrogen fixers such as soybeans and plowing them in. As well as adding nitrogen to the soil, this provides critical nutrients for soil bacteria and fungi. Soil should be considered as a carbon sink. A typical acre of healthy soil will contain about 10 tons of biomass. Petrochemical based farming reduces the soil to sand devoid of its normal colonies of assorted microorganisms and earthworms. Crops sprayed with pesticide do not readily support their growth when plowed under. With this in mind and considering that the overall efficiency of this proposed system curtails or eliminates many forms of employment, further considering that this arrangement makes available a large workforce, the primary method of weed control should be mechanical or manual. This system also makes available the laborers for harvesting. It should be possible to devise an employment scheme that makes weed control and harvesting temporary forms of employment, evenly distributing the workload. With a large portion of the community participating in the whole process, an annual harvest festival would be a truly meaningful event. A community standing shoulder to shoulder with those who work to stock its cupboards, expressing their appreciation and gratitude.

    Another agricultural related advantage to this system is that it provides an efficient system of food waste distribution to the piggeries, converting them from food waste to supplemental livestock nutrition. And again we see that the physical outlay of the community serves the principles of sound economics well.

    The Buildings

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    The Buildings

    Now that I've described in brief the layout of the community and touched upon some of its advantages let's take a look at the buildings themselves.

    First let's look at why I think a pyramid is the best design for the primary structures. Because of its self-supporting nature it should require fewer building materials to construct. This is an important consideration we take into account the number of these communities necessary to house the global population and establish its transportation network.

    A pyramid has about 91% of the surface area of a cube of the same volume (not counting the base). This translates to energy efficiency as a lower coefficient of thermal transfer per unit of volume.

    A pyramid has a base area about 2.6 times that of a cube of the same volume. Its height to base ratio will allow it to be built over sandy soils without the tilting issues experienced by some taller buildings.

    A pyramid has 113% of the potential window area compared with a cube of the same volume. Slanted surfaces present themselves well for the installation of solar panels.

    A design that I have in mind will make use of a central spine spanning the building from corner to opposing corner intersecting in the center. The central spine may be augmented by secondary structures as necessary. If the faces of the pyramid are equilateral, the angle from one corner to the apex is 45°. The spine of the building is an ideal location for its major internal conveyances. A funicular tram could be purchased along the superstructure. If the external conveyance were to terminate at the center of its base, the intersection of its spine, it would serve as the building's transportation hub. The funicular tram's could be designed to converge at that point.The spine would offer a platform for the buildings and other internal arteries such as HVAC, water, electrical distribution and sewage.

    The immediate area around each building would be dedicated social and recreational space. For planning purposes I have chosen one fifth of an acre per inhabitant. This part of the plan was formulated with the United States in mind and taking into consideration the American need for "elbowroom". A nation such as Taiwan with 23 million inhabitants and 13,900 mi.² of land area has just shy of 4/10 of an acre per capita. Even so, if Taiwan were to implement this plan, better use would be made of its scarce land resources. Whether or not one fifth of an acre is the ideal solution, it should be taken into consideration that if this is too generous, it can easily be converted to agricultural use. If the space is insufficient, agricultural land may be repurposed. A community of 5000 would have about 1000 acres or a little over 1 1/2 mi.² this should be ample room for ballfields, outdoor primitive culinary events, outdoor art installation and quiet sanctuaries for those seeking solitude outdoors.

    For planning purposes I have chosen 50,000 ft.³ per building occupant. This is the equivalent of a room of about 70' x 70' x 10' high. This allocation includes residences, workspace and shared social space. It was derived from the volume of the building computed from the outside dimension and ignores structural intrusion and areas occupied by utilities etc. With some deliberation, I settled on those numbers for discussion purposes. A realistic occupation density would have to be derived with the input from experts in such fields as architecture in sociology. This applies to the size of the buildings as well.

    The smallest building would have a base of 1000' x 1000' and a height of 707 feet. It would house 4714 occupants based on the 50,000 ft.³ metric. It's terrestrial footprint would be 23 acres.

    The second smallest building would have a base of 1414' x 1114' and a height of 1000 feet. It would house 13,333 occupants and have a terrestrial footprint of 45.9 acres.

    The second largest building would have a base of 2000' x 2000' and a height of 1414 feet. It would house 37,712 people and occupy a terrestrial footprint of 91.8 acres.

    The tallest building would have a base of 2828' x 2828' and a height of 2000 feet. It would house 106,666 people and have a terrestrial footprint of 183.7 acres.

    The largest building is surrounded by six of the next smaller units. Each of these is surrounded by six of the next smaller buildings and each of those are surrounded by six of the second smallest units, which are in turn surrounded by six of the smallest units. In this sample scheme there are 1,831,150 residents housed in 259 buildings.(See Appendixes) The combined terrestrial footprint of the buildings is 7346 acres or about 11.5 mi.², or an area 3.4 miles x 3.4 miles. If the community is planned around 5 acres of combined social, recreational and agricultural land per inhabitant it will require 9,155,750 acres or 14,306 mi.², a circle with a radius of about 67.5 miles. In such a configuration and with the interconnecting rails subterranean, the terrestrial footprint of the infrastructure would occupy less than 1/10 of 1% of the surface area.

    If the scheme were applied to the Earth's population of about 7 billion, human settlements would occupy about 14% of the land mass of the planet. This land area could probably be cut in half if needed or desired, though initially the community should be poised to produce surplus agricultural products beyond its own needs. These surpluses would be used to generate revenue streams as well as supporting newly established communities, until which time they have developed and implemented their own agricultural plan. We would be able to scientifically determine the maximum possible population of our planet, which by some accounts we have exceeded under our current system.

    The buildings should be designed with every foreseeable path to economy covered. This includes its durability. A couple of dollars worth of an alloying agent per ton of steel may reduce the amount of materials needed for construction or perhaps increase its corrosion resistance. A building that would have a 25 to 50 year service life would be less suitable toward this goal than one that would last for 200 years. If a building can be built to last for 200 years it should be possible, with adequate and routine maintenance for to last 1000 years. To that end a refurbishment plan should be included in the design of the buildings.

    No effort should be spared in the area of energy efficiency of the buildings. Small savings are compounded when we consider the energy usage over the lifespan of the buildings and the number of them to be built. Where possible, the building's HVAC systems should draw their intake through a network of underground ducts. This reduces energy needs by preheating the air in the winter and precooling it in the summer. The building would exhaust through a network of greenhouses, heating them in the winter, cooling them in the summer. The exhausted air would have the additional quality of increased carbon dioxide levels from human respiration, stimulating plant growth. Carbon dioxide from breweries, emitted during fermentation, could be routed to the buildings exhaust further contributing to that benefit.

    Cold storage units would be located underground in the building's basement for thermal advantage. Waste heat from cold storage could be used to augment the buildings heaters or to heat water.

    Laundry units of very large commercial type would serve the community. These would be programmed to use water as efficiently as possible, routing the final rinse water of one machine to the first rinse of another, for instance. The waste heat from the dryers could be used to augment the buildings heating system or to heat water. Communal laundry not only results in energy and water savings, it has the social dividend of freeing up the residence's time.

    Communal dining should be the primary option for sustenance. This has multiple social and economic advantages. Socially it makes better use of the residence time as well as stimulating random social contact. Together with communal laundry, not only does it greatly reduce the number of appliances needed for the day-to-day activities, it reduces the load on the buildings water electrical and sewage systems. It would eliminate the need to distribute flammable gas to the residential areas. Food waste would be minimized and table scraps could be efficiently distributed to livestock operations.

    This layout constitutes the ultimate "Farm to Table" operation. It should be easy to provide the community with wholesome, nutritious sustenance efficiently and economically. If the dining operations are unshackled by the mandate to realize a monetary profit, there would be no incentive to cut corners and provide substandard service to that end. Profits will be realized through the benefit to the community: proper nutrition, diner satisfaction and sociality. Adam Smith's bakers and butchers need not apply.

    In addition to the community dining facilities, alternatives could be offered. These would be specialty shops such as pizza parlors, cafés or perhaps more intimate upscale dining, etc. This would be up to the residents to work out.

    Each resident should have a private space of one's own. As a minimum it should include a bathing and toilet room, and a wet bar. It would probably be wise to construct a variety of suites to accommodate various needs. To some, a domicile is a place to park their bones at night and a place to store their belongings. Too others it is the hub of their social life, and so they would require more space. And then there are those whose professions would allow them wholly or in part to work from their residences. How would that affect their space requirements?

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    Another consideration is the availability of window space. The smallest units would have approximately 367 ft.² of surface area per inhabitant. That would allow for one of the surfaces to be dedicated greenhouse space and still afford each occupant an apartment with a lanai. The largest buildings would have about 130 ft.² of surface area per occupant. This is because the surface area increases with the square of the dimension while the volume increases with the cube of the dimension. For the large building, it may be desirable to dedicate the most window space to recreational and social areas so as to allow greater number of the occupants an opportunity for a window seat. In this situation it may be desirable to increase the suite sizes so as to afford the sense of roominess lost by the lack of a window.

    However the buildings are configured, the primary consideration must be human happiness and satisfaction. We don't want to create a "sardine syndrome" yet we don't want to squander resources by populating to sparsely. Ultimately, the population densities would be established by experiment and experience.

    Agricultural considerations

    While a concise farming plan must be worked out for each community in situ, taking into consideration the condition of the soil, water availability and the local climate, a general plan can be worked out. At the core of the general plan must lie sustainability. The primary goal of petrochemical-based farming is wealth extraction, the greatest return on investment, often at the expense of the health of the soil. It is not possible to immediately begin organic farming on depleted soils as they lack the necessary bacteria and fungi to support it. The soil should be transitioned over a period of years, and used in such a way that they can be farmed perpetually. Many of the principles of permaculture would be adopted to large-scale techniques.

    Livestock should be integrated into the soil restoration and maintenance program. For this reason and for the simple sake of humanitarianism, "factory farming" techniques should be eschewed. Free range animals with access to sunlight and fresh food have better nutrition and need fewer if any antibiotics. Concentrating animals in large barns is unsanitary, creates stench, and is unhealthy for the livestock as well as the workers. The extensive use of antibiotics leads to the development of antibiotic resistant strains.

    Another undesirable practice employed by factory farms is the use of single breeds. Chickens are bred to produce breast so large they are unable to walk naturally. The lack of genetic diversity coupled with unsanitary conditions renders the livestock susceptible to disease that would threaten an entire species, whereas with a diversified gene pool some, may have an immunity to a particular virus and survive.

    Biodiversity is just as important in farming as it is with livestock. While seed banks provide a very important service to society, they need the help of the farming communities. Periodically, the seeds must be grown out so that the inventory remains fresh and viable. The layout and efficiency of the community would be an ideal situation to support such programs.

    Some writers have cited meat production as the largest emitter of greenhouse gases. Perhaps this is true under the current system when one considers the petrochemical input necessary to sustain it. One must take into account the pesticides and fertilizers as well as the energy needed to produce them, the fuel consumed in the transportation of the animals and the animal products as well as the fuel consumed by the distribution of feed, and then we must include the fuel consumed by the workers. I will argue that meat production can be carbon neutral and even carbon negative during the period when livestock are used to refortify the soils.

    To begin, consider the amount of carbon tied up in a herd of cattle or perhaps a herd of buffalo. The carbon contained in their body mass came from the vegetable matter they consumed, which the grasses or grains removed from the atmosphere. Had the animals not consume the vegetable matter it would have decomposed forming methane and carbon dioxide in the process. Viewed from this angle we can see that they are part of an equilibrium. Now, when we consider the restorative effects they have on the soil, providing valuable nutrients which support the growth of beneficial bacteria and fungi we can see how they can be carbon negative. If no mined carbon resources are used in the production of their feed, the transportation of the animals and their products, the transportation of their workers, they contribute no new carbon to the Earth's atmosphere and can even serve to reduce.

    A comprehensive farm plan would have to be developed with the input from institutions such as the Rodale Institute and the Permaculture Institute.

    Energy strategies

    A "leave no stone unturned" approach would be applied to the community's energy plan. It should be possible for each community of 259 building to be energy self-sufficient. Wind and solar both have peak outputs that do not always coincide with peak usage. Along with batteries, mechanical storage strategies should be considered. One such scheme involves storing energy by accelerating a rotating mass connected to a dynamo. The dynamo would serve as a motor and would divert surplus electricity from wind and solar by converting it to angular momentum in the rotating mass. When electricity is needed, the dynamo would function as a generator, converting the angular momentum to electricity. Another such scheme involves using excess electricity to pump water from one reservoir to a higher one and using the gravitational potential energy to generate electricity by water driven turbines.

    Surplus electricity can be used to generate hydrogen by the electrolysis of water. This has the added advantage of producing oxygen which can be used for medical, aviation and industrial purposes. The hydrogen can be used to power a turban connected to a generator.

    Syngas or synthetic gas is generated when biomass such as wood is heated in the absence of oxygen. Syngas is mainly methane along with other volatiles. Surplus electricity or direct solar using parabolic mirrors can be used to heat the syngas generators. This scheme has the added advantage of creating biochar which can be used as a soil amendment, aiding in moisture retention. Biochar takes many years to decomposed, effectively sequestering the carbon. Syngas would also be harvested from the sewage digesters. Biofuels such as oils from hemp, corn, soy and rapeseed can be utilized as well as ethanol.

    While any single approach may prove insufficient, a combination of some or all of the above and other strategies, coupled with efficient usage, should keep the communities going at full power all year long. The optimum strategy for a particular community in a given location would be worked out in situ and would depend upon available resources. And again, the physical layout of the communities is optimal for programs of this nature.

    Economic considerations

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    Economic considerations

    Immediately upon implementation, this plan will trigger a spike in total carbon output due to the manufacture of materials needed to put it together. It will also trigger a secondary spike due to an increase in the demand for consumer goods created by the uptick in economic activity. This facet of economics warrants further consideration, for when sufficient numbers are living in the modern ekistics system, consumerism as an economic engine will be on a steady decline. Economic strategies that rely on a growth model will fail. This could result in an undesirable and severe consequences if not planned for. The potential for collapse is very real when we consider that the current economy is based on growth and inextricably tied to petroleum prices, which will plummet once demands are reduced.

    It will be necessary to develop two new economic models. The first would be a transition model. It would serve the purpose of defining the fastest pathway to full implementation as well as devising strategies to insulate the new community from wealth extraction by entities solely concerned with monetary gains. The transitional model would also devise strategies to shield the new communities from the roller coaster nature of the present economic model and perhaps developing strategies to benefit from it.

    The second model would concern itself with the economics of the community when fully established. While it is possible from our current perspective to develop a general framework, the details must be worked out in situ once communities are established. The economics plan would initially focus on local policies with regional, national and global considerations coming into play as communities develop to those levels. If the primary goal of ekistics, human happiness, is allowed to guide those policies we should be able to work out a healthy, stable and robust economy.

    Getting Started

    To begin, I would like to establish a planning commission and conduct an extensive feasibility study. The panel would be staffed with experts in the pertinent fields such as architecture, engineering, sociology, economics and agriculture etc. The commission would first answer the questions "Is this scheme actually doable?" and "Is there a better plan?".

    If it is decided that this plan is implementable the commission would begin mapping out a pathway to doing so most efficiently.

    Because so many buildings must be built, it will be necessary to inventory the world steel resources and construct a mining and salvage plan to meet those needs. It should also be considered that it may be desirable to relocate steel manufacturers to areas where solar energy can be used to augment conventional methods so as to minimize carbon emissions. It may also be desirable to relocate cement manufacturing to such locations as solar can be used in part or wholly in the calcination process.

    The planning commission would also explore pathways to profitability for the communities. The decision metric for starting these enterprises would be those that would provide consumer goods and save the community money as well as potential profitability. By this I mean such items as bicycles and furniture. I think bicycles will play a major role in the transportation scheme. If a bicycle of high quality can be made at the same cost of purchasing a low-cost disposable bike, then that enterprise should be undertaken. As soon as it becomes economically advantageous to manufacture furniture, that enterprise should be developed. This principle applies to any enterprise.

    Another potential pathway to profitability would be to host other businesses and concerns wishing to upgrade their green credentials. Enterprises such as the film industry would find the efficiency and readily available workforce enticing and economically advantageous.

    The planning commission should study areas such as retirement communities and elder care as revenue streams. These are areas that must be developed eventually and if they can be operated at breakeven or above they should be launched as soon as it is determined that opportunity cost are not too high. This applies as well to developing the health care system.

    The planning commission would concern itself with site selection of the first community. This is highly important as it will have a critical public relations role so it should be accessible from and adjacent to a large urban area yet with large acreage of affordable land. The public relations mission of the first community would be to showcase this style of living with the goal of enticing others to adopt it. For this reason as well as the general enjoyment of life, the first inhabitants will need to develop the ethos and social values that would make it attractive.

    The planning commission would develop recruiting strategies. I would recommend that a good number of them would be newly minted sociologist as well as others with training in that field. This will be after all the biggest social experiment in history. Those sociologists must be willing to get some dirt under their nails as they would serve initially in construction, agricultural, maintenance and administrative roles. First, to gain a perspective on what life is like in those roles and secondly to engineer an amicable lifestyle by living it. Eventually they will become administrators and would be endowed with the experience of the lives they were administrating. It would also establish the principle of promoting from the bottom up, earning them the respect of those who they supervise.

    Essentially the planning commission will take this project from the conceptual stage to a shovel ready project. This would mean having blueprints for the structures and a charter for the corporation that puts it all together. The corporation should be organized as a social welfare organization. For several reasons I think it would be wise for each participant to hold a share in the corporation. As owners of the corporation most would be motivated to learn of and participate in the corporation's governance. By accepting "sweat equity" in the corporation in lieu of a portion of their compensation, monetary resources would be untied and available to finance expansion.

    One of the dictionary definitions of socialism is: a social system in which the producers possess both political power and the means of producing and distributing goods. (The American Heritage Dictionary New College Edition 1971). For the purposes of this work we will dismiss Marxist-Leninist theory and its "dictatorship of the proletariat" along with the other antisocial aspects. In the context of this work socialism is neither a specific political nor economics theory. It is a social philosophy that informs the two. At its core is the principle that we as a people, acting in concert and harmoniously, can create a convivial and just society. This principle must be enshrined in the charter along with the enumeration of specific rights. Along with a statement of purpose of the corporation, the charter will serve as a social contract for the shareholders. This must be worked out in detail and explicitly, as well as the means to amend it as experience reveals. This is beyond my meager means and perhaps beyond the capabilities of any single person, as it would require input from many fields.

    I believe I have brought this project as far as I can on my own. I believe it will bring our system of ekistics and economics into harmony with the Earth's ecology. If your organization can see merit in the whole or in part of this I could use your help in putting the plan in motion. It would require more than just a grant I would need some guidance for I have little experience in these matters.

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    Thanks for your interest. I am interested in all plans. Have you posted yours anywhere on this forum? I have posted mine in a subsequent reply below.

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    I'm a great lover of plans, but in my experience so far, there is one big sticking point:

    > The panel would be staffed with experts

    Where do you get the experts from ?

    Or perhaps another way of putting it is, how do you raise enough money to pay the experts to come and work for you ?

    As so far I've seen, asking for a bunch of experts to just help out in projects like this tends to not produce many volunteers. (Perhaps because most experts are busy in their day job paying the rent.)

    As such, I would suggest looking at an even earlier stage of development, one in which you make progress with just yourself, or a handful of other interested parties, perhaps none of you experts in anything, but willing to learn and do the best you can.

    Because I think that is the only way we are going to see progress, otherwise we end up waiting for too many things to be ready before we move ahead.

    Think of it like say, building a car, which is much easier if you have a team of skilled engineers/etc. and a big budget.

    Crowd funding might be one way to kick start things, though I have read that the most likely amount to be raised from such an approach is around $20,000 USD, so one ideally needs a plan that can make use of that much starting capital to get something up and running, which can then enable you to reach the next phase.

    I pondered greenhouses myself, but for that one needs land, and where I am, buying land to grow things on is practically illegal !

    Better land though costs a lot more !

    And naturally is a long way away, where housing is more expensive too !

    So if you are poor, you can't just move..

    Bit of a catch 22..

    Maybe one of us lives someplace more suitable for starting up something which could then grow.

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    To answer some of your questions. It is %100 doable. There are always better plans and better ideas and this is a good thing as it means that you will always have a better chance every time you discover one of them. The best way to go about it is to keep away from people that are stuck in the old world - at least for the beginning stage.

    As long as you have the basics of food, water, and perhaps shelter addressed, just about any lifestyle / civilization can work. It can be a life of roaming without a home and doing everything yourself. Or working a 9 to 5 job and going home with everything designed, created, and provided for you to buy and take home. The question is, how are you going to accomplish your idea. The hardest part is often just getting it started. Sharing your idea is a good step forward.

    I think I have a similar idea. But not as fleshed out as yours.
    Last edited by fleshtheworld; 04-11-2017 at 09:40 PM.
    jody and Ernest like this.

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