Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 17 of 17
Like Tree15Likes

Thread: The main difference between rich and poor

  1. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    139
    > Poor people stay poor because that's how the System is structured to end up.

    You know I'm reminded of a computer game (Diablo 3) which when it was first released had a certain system structure to it, such that poor folk could get rich with hard work.

    But some folk got very rich, though both luck and lots of hard work.

    Poor people complained about this !

    So the game company changed the system structure hugely, and suddenly it became much harder for the poor to become rich !

    But folk who was lucky, got rich..

    Kinda ironic that by trying to improve the system, they made it worse !


    Now you are probably all wondering, what magic thing did they do to make it worse...

    Well, they got rid of money, and auctions, and trading !


    The outcome was, lets say, unexpected !

    But they refuse to change it back !


    Before, if someone poor happened to find an old pair of shoes, they could trade it for something more useful, or sell it, or auction it !

    Now, if they find another pair of old shoes, well, they have a growing collection of them, as they can't sell them, auction them, or trade them for anything else they might want that is more useful !


    Good intentions, but bad outcome.

    Perhaps they went about it all wrong . . .

    Lets see if we can do better. :-)

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northwest Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,897
    Quote Originally Posted by YouTuber View Post
    > finding that poor folks are considerably more willing to SHARE and the wealthy have a hard time giving up anything....that's my own observation.

    I've seen the same thing there too.

    Wealthy don't stay wealthy by giving stuff away. :-)

    But whilst poor folk might share a meal with you, they wouldn't go as far as starting a farming cooperative to provide lower cost, or even free food for the village.

    That step requires the wealthy person to organise, even though collectively the poor could have the resources to do it themselves, they just don't want to.

    Even though it could benefit them greatly to do so !

    They might even all agree its a great idea, but they just want someone else to do it. :-)

    When that someone else in the village does it, they then become wealthy !

    Usually by charging the poor folk...


    I sometimes wonder, why doesn't one of the poor folk, when they build something to help the poor, actually really help them, say with free food, rather than just selling them cheaper food..

    I've spoken to a few wealthy folk about that, and they tell me that the poor folk don't deserve it because they refused to help them when they wanted help, so they are repaying the karma !

    And so the cycle continues, poor stay poor, some poor become rich, end up not treating the poor too kindly and the cycle continues.


    How might we break that cycle ?

    Become wealthy, but not treat the poor badly ?

    That I think might be a good first step.

    After all, look at Linux, that helps the poor.


    I'd love to provide free food to the poor, but I don't have the land to do so !

    Now, can I convince any of my neighbours who have land, to use it for that purpose..

    And then, where do I find the workers who will work for free to build it all in the first place !

    Difficulties, difficulties.


    > How do you suppose you gained access to a 'rich folks forum'

    I asked nicely if a rich person would give me one of their free passes so I could access it, rather than having to pay a small fortune for the privilege. (One of those, pay for access, get 4 free passes for friends/etc.)
    That's all it took, heh? You just asked for a 'pass' and it was provided? So tell us Man, what are the Rich talking about these days?

    Wow, after READING all that...one thing seems clear to me....YouTuber is giving us an awful lot of mind blowing assumptions, as contained above, no?

    I started or co-founded 3 communes back in the day (One is still existing after over 40 years, if not thriving), so please don't 'tell' us that poor folks are somehow unwilling or unable to design or build a community.... That's BS!

    In my own experience, including visiting dozens of such communities since my own such adventures ended, NOT one of us was wealthy or could be considered so, in fact we were all from 'less advantaged' backgrounds.....

    Man I hate 'assumptions' that are based on little more than personal stories....and observations....We all have to get OUT more often....

  3. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    139
    > (One is still existing after over 40 years, if not thriving)

    As I rarely come across ones that have survived, it interests me greatly to understand the reasons for their success, do you have any insights, thoughts/etc. on what makes the difference between a successful commune and an unsuccessful one ?
    droneBEE, HAL9000 and Ernest like this.

  4. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    139
    > We all have to get OUT more often....

    You mean so we can collect more:

    > personal stories....and observations....

    :-)

    That's how I came to my conclusions from getting out an awful lot !
    Last edited by YouTuber; 1 Week Ago at 05:04 AM. Reason: Spelling error.

  5. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    139
    > what are the Rich talking about these days?

    Lets see, current topics:

    -----------
    Universal Basic Income.
    Which video card should I buy for my PC.
    My Wordpress site isn't working right.
    Buffy is 20 years old.
    I got sold the wrong BMW.
    How do I dispose of unwanted petrol.
    Why do they serve tea in metal teapots and not ceramic ones.
    My motorbike clutch isn't working right.
    Getting the right kind of white light LEDs.
    Fiddling with my Raspberry Pi Zero.
    How to grow flowers.
    Mesh Wi-Fi issue.
    My pension pot is up 21% this year!
    -----------

    And apparently investing in Venezuela government bonds in 2010 was a really smart move.


    Obviously the UBI one interests me the most, as I'm gently trying to encourage the idea. (Or perhaps, not quite so gently!)

    Some are for it, some are not..

    The against it ones say it will cost more than the current benefit system.

    Lets see, one of the links they mentioned was:

    Don?t fall for universal basic income ? it?s a utopian fiction that wastes public money on the rich | The Independent

    But the comment section there was the real gold:

    -----------------------------------
    godenich
    Basic income is an appealing alternative to QE, ZIRP and NIRP.

    a) It does not require the central bank to create money out of thin air, i.e. the frugal form of basic income that is an unconditional, individual poverty-level, citizen's negative income tax.
    b) It does not artificially raise stock prices, house prices and property taxes and then let them drop precipitously in price when the stimulus programs are terminated, having a deleterious effect on unwary households. Well, at least the stock prices and house prices drop like a rock, but taxes tend to float down like a feather.
    c) It is not an incentive for governments to deficit spend, but rather an incentive for skills training, university attendance and entrepreneurial risk-taking to start a business.
    d) It provides liquidity and hedges main street for recession and continuing business as usual.
    e) It tops up liquidity in the real domestic economy during recession rather than promoting carry trade and stock buy-backs that drain liquidity from the real domestic economy and increase the national debt.
    f) It rewards sound business by allowing over-speculative, illiquid and insolvent businesses to fail and clear the markets without creating queues of bread lines.
    g) It reduces payroll costs for businesses and tops up low wage workers.
    h) It reduces government costs and bureaucracy, bound hand and foot with red tape.
    i) It encourages participation in the formal sector of the economy that generates tax revenues for government rather than induce unemployed into the informal sector raising policing costs.
    j) Excepting medical care, it replaces the current welfare benefit programs.
    k) And yes, it does happen to benefit society by abolishisng poverty, as well as encourage the arts, manufactures and commerce

    QE, ZIRP and NIRP create a temporary wealth effect for some while it lasts. Basic income creates a permanent wealth effect for the entire domestic economy, promoting the idea of booms without bust from real productivity gains.

    Much ado is also made of automatons raiding and pillaging incomes from citizens in the near future. They have indeed already landed if one but takes the time to look about. They come in all shapes and sizes from industrial robots to algorithmic trading platform agents. To further reduce red tape in favor of stimulating greater productivity in the real economy, consider combining basic income with apt tax reform[1-3]. Replace the convoluted tax system with a tiny flat tax less than 1% on all transactions[4]* and assets[5]*. Abolish the lion's share of other taxes, especially income taxes on the head of each citizen, that may reduce economic activity in the real economy.

    * Substitute appropriate values for the City of London and UK.

    [1] The APT Tax | Youtube
    [2] Taxation for the 21ST Century: the automated payment transaction (APT) tax | Edgar L. Feige | 2000
    [3] ON THE CONTRARY; Dreaming Out Loud: One Tiny Little Tax | NYT| [Inflammatory word removed. Please be civil and respectful]Daniel Akst |2003
    [4] This Is How $14 Trillion Flows Every Day Through The US Financial System | ZeroHedge | 2012
    [5] Total Assets of the U.S. Economy $188 Trillion, 13.4xGDP | Rutledge Capital | 2009
    -----------------------------------

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northwest Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,897
    Quote Originally Posted by YouTuber View Post
    > (One is still existing after over 40 years, if not thriving)

    As I rarely come across ones that have survived, it interests me greatly to understand the reasons for their success, do you have any insights, thoughts/etc. on what makes the difference between a successful commune and an unsuccessful one ?
    Yeah....Develop a SHARED vision, Don't allow individual EGO's to ruin it all for everyone else.....Everyone has something invested, so everyone has something to loose, everyone has a say...and everyone has a responsibility to the community....NO SLACKERS ALLOWED!!!

    ....OK, there's a few things learned about community building.....with the FIRST being that , just like the outside world in general; LABOR precedes Capital....ALWAYS. It all begins with HARD WORK, and less TALK (its how the LAZY are weeded out)
    HAL9000 and Ernest like this.

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northwest Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,897
    Agreed....a Basic Income could be created without using any money/cash at all....

    ....also Agreed (if I'm following your line of thought properly) a LAND VALUE (a value created by the community, NOT the Landlord) taxation would/could/should go a long way toward 'equalizing' the population.....and lessening its burdens...
    Ernest likes this.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
web statistics
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1