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Thread: Racism is many fallacies

  1. #11
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    Right on Ernest!!! There's no veil over your eyes....
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by serenesam View Post
    Humans on the planet have evolved differently. Therefore, as a result of that, it makes sense as to why certain "groups" or "races" might be superior.

    Keep in mind that I'm not just talking IQ here. For example, Blacks might be more athletic and so from that perspective, they are "superior."

    "Racism" can take many forms.....
    Yeah, racism can take many forms all right.... like Stereotyping groups of people based on presumed athleticism, skin color or ancestry, and assuming they are all the same.......
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    Hmmm...Do 'you' consider yourself one? Of course not, right? Jeeze, what a question,,,,thought we were beyond that???

    Is this an attempt to bait me into something which may be improbable or unlikely to fully comprehend? Beware where you tread my friend, my brother...unless you've been in my shoes (perhaps you have, I sure don't know) ....or the bare feet of anyone who has suffered from bigotry, regardless of the bigot's intentions.....regardless of the bigot's proclamation that they are not a bigot.....for the bigot is always the one most blind to his own bigotry....

    TBH; It makes little difference what 'I' think or consider myself, although I 'do' regularly associate with all kinds of folks, all stripes and colors if you will, even libertarians , although there's darn few of 'them' at the food shelter we volunteer at...it only makes a difference to the one offended by racism or has, or is currently suffering from 'systemic' racism that is rarely seen or recognized by the dominant race......the evidentiary list is long and terrible....
    It has nothing to do with who you associate with, but what you choose to say. I create this thread to point out that racism is many fallacies, and what do you do? You're not one of the knuckleheads in my crosshairs, yet you've managed to stumble into this thread and "photo bomb" the picture with all these references to race and place yourself in my crosshairs, in front of the others right now:

    Am I the only Non-White person posting in these pages?

    Saying what I want to say about this issue can easily be misinterpreted by folks without a similar background....mostly white folks.....so I don't want to intentionally offend anyone by saying just a few things that can only be understood by people who have actually suffered from racism, from racists, those of us who tolerate racists remarks simply because we are out numbered and the group we think we belong to is too weak to fight against it.

    I love it when White folks attempt to explain or rationalize racism..(NOT!)..Its like when a Man is explaining why he should be in control over a Women's body or mind....pure insanity IMO.....



    This place needs more women and people of color IMHO.....
    That's what prompted me to turn my focus on you and made me want to ask you the question. What's the difference between the way you're being a racist and the way folks like serenesam & SD are being racists? There may be some superficial differences (some might refer to what you're doing as so-called "reverse racism"), but fundamentally racism is a fallacy either way.
    Last edited by Neil; 03-07-2017 at 06:39 AM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by serenesam View Post
    Humans on the planet have evolved differently.
    Yes, humans have evolved differently - from non-human organisms. But a person is still a human being regardless of ethnicity, skin color, hair color, eye color, culture, religion, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by serenesam View Post
    Therefore, as a result of that, it makes sense as to why certain "groups" or "races" might be superior.
    In order for that to be true, every single individual of a group of humans that is categorized as one race would have to be superior to every single individual of a group of humans that is categorized as another race in at least one aspect. Nothing of the sort exists within human beings.

    Quote Originally Posted by serenesam View Post
    Keep in mind that I'm not just talking IQ here.
    What of it? I suppose you're referring to some sort of claim along the lines of "whites" having higher IQs than "blacks", which could be explained by things like cultural bias in the design of things such as IQ tests & SAT exams, racial hatred, contempt, and sense of superiority by some members of the "white" majority towards "black" minorities, and a combination of economic, social, and environmental factors to which "blacks" have been inflicted resulting in not getting the same quality of education as "whites".

    Quote Originally Posted by serenesam View Post
    For example, Blacks might be more athletic and so from that perspective, they are "superior."
    The key word here is "might" & even if there were a discrepancy between races, that discrepancy could be explained by things like how much time the individuals in question have for spending time to develop their athletic skills because of the economic conditions they were raised in.

    Quote Originally Posted by serenesam View Post
    "Racism" can take many forms.....
    Yeah, we agree on this one.

    You made me think of another way that racism is a fallacy - it could also be cherry picking.

    I suppose now would be a good time to reiterate one of the things Fresco discussed regarding racism:


  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    It has nothing to do with who you associate with, but what you choose to say. I create this thread to point out that racism is many fallacies, and what do you do? You're not one of the knuckleheads in my crosshairs, yet you've managed to stumble into this thread and "photo bomb" the picture with all these references to race and place yourself in my crosshairs, in front of the others right now:



    That's what prompted me to turn my focus on you and made me want to ask you the question. What's the difference between the way you're being a racist and the way folks like serenesam & SD are being racists? There may be some superficial differences (some might refer to what you're doing as so-called "reverse racism"), but fundamentally racism is a fallacy either way.
    My friend Neil...if you cannot tell the difference between my posts and SD's then there's more going on than what you're telling us.....

    And as someone who 'has been offended' and much worse from bigots and bigotry, I offer my sincere apologies for adding any more confusion or misunderstanding to the topic...a topic that is admittedly difficult for anyone who has never suffered from bigotry ... causing a GIANT blind spot, removed and/or isolated from the reality that many are confronted with every single day....

    I really did attempt to just leave this thread alone, fearing the misunderstanding that has obviously taken place .....as so often happens when only 'one' perspective is accepted or tolerated by the so-called dominant race.....for those among us who insist on believing such nonsense anyway......

    Please allow for the suggestion that 'everyone' READS and UNDERSTANDS what we/they/I/you are responding to and about, and I'll try to do the same in the future as well.....
    Last edited by droneBEE; 03-08-2017 at 06:30 AM.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Yes, humans have evolved differently - from non-human organisms. But a person is still a human being regardless of ethnicity, skin color, hair color, eye color, culture, religion, etc.
    Right, a dog is still a dog regardless of what it looks like.

    In order for that to be true, every single individual of a group of humans that is categorized as one race would have to be superior to every single individual of a group of humans that is categorized as another race in at least one aspect. Nothing of the sort exists within human beings.
    Outliers aren't usually counted in statistics. The mean or average is what matters. The following video is great in emphasizing that the more you deviate from the mean IQ, the less predictive power the g factor has:



    The key word here is "might" & even if there were a discrepancy between races, that discrepancy could be explained by things like how much time the individuals in question have for spending time to develop their athletic skills because of the economic conditions they were raised in.
    My bad, the key word here is actually "more likely" instead of "might."
    "Change is almost always negative. Things degenerate." - Woody Allen

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    My friend Neil...if you cannot tell the difference between my posts and SD's then there's more going on than what you're telling us.....
    Oh, I'll grant to you that yes, there are some distinction between what you've posted, what SD & serenesam have posted, and even other positions that are distinct from all 3 of us. What I'm trying to get at is to me, any effort to group individuals into races (meaning ethnicities) generally doesn't really serve any useful or beneficial purpose - unless it serves some scientifically meaningful purposes such as health/medicine issues dealing with things like skin cancer, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    And as someone who 'has been offended' and much worse from bigots and bigotry, I offer my sincere apologies for adding any more confusion or misunderstanding to the topic...a topic that is admittedly difficult for anyone who has never suffered from bigotry ... causing a GIANT blind spot, removed and/or isolated from the reality that many are confronted with every single day....

    I really did attempt to just leave this thread alone, fearing the misunderstanding that has obviously taken place .....as so often happens when only 'one' perspective is accepted or tolerated by the so-called dominant race.....for those among us who insist on believing such nonsense anyway......

    Please allow for the suggestion that 'everyone' READS and UNDERSTANDS what we/they/I/you are responding to and about, and I'll try to do the same in the future as well.....
    I don't think it's necessary to make yourself feel like you're the recipient of harsh criticism. When I write responses to something, I'm simply focusing on the way I interpret the statements and I'm not really trying to do something like weigh you as an individual, based on what you wrote.

    You don't strike me as someone who falls into the same specific category as someone like Molyneux. My guess is that maybe Molyneux was raised with some level of racism, or influenced by peer pressure in the environment he grew up in to be the way he has turned out; I don't really know, but I have heard him talk about how for at least part of his life growing up or when he left to live on his own, he was poor and lived in a community or environment where he was the minority. Could that have had some sort of impact or influence on him? Might he have been a victim of racism, and he doesn't want to talk about it (as some people sometimes don't want to do when they're victims)? Maybe he was a victim and maybe he has done a podcast where he "opens up" about it.

    I'm also guessing that folks like SD & serenesam, on the other hand, might have been directly or indirectly influenced by folks like Molyneux, because to some like them, they look up to people like Molyneux because he seems to make so much sense to them, or he's very good at being persuasive to many of his audience; again, I really don't know in this case, either, but I do take what I've seen both of them state in the past on this forum as indicators or clues.

    Anyways, the point is that we all have our life's experiences, and how they affect all of us.

    Part of the point that I'm trying to make is that anyone of any race/color/ethnicity (or creed) can be a victim of racism (or bigotry), not just specific, designated minority groups. Anyone can be a member of some minority group. One way that I'm a member of a minority group, for example, is that I'm left handed and I live in the right-handed majority's world. In general, life isn't fair and that applies to everyone, whether it's an unfair advantage or disadvantage in some cases, and the other way around in other cases.

    As you may recall, I lived on O'ahu for 4 years when I was a child; a person like me is what the native polynesians there refer to as a haole (not to mention a minority): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haole

    From what I was told, when my father was growing up in Wilmington, Delaware, the neighborhoods were divided up into 3 main areas, the Irish area (that's where my dad grew up), the Italian area, and the Puerto Rican area. Everyone was a minority there. BTW, droneBEE - as someone who has served in the military, what are you aware of regarding many who get married while serving in the military? I'll give you a hint: I have more than 1 first language.

    Jacque Fresco has had discussions that have some overlap with these kinds of issues; here's one example that I think is relevant:

    Last edited by Neil; 03-12-2017 at 07:36 AM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by serenesam View Post
    Right, a dog is still a dog regardless of what it looks like.
    Yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by serenesam View Post
    Outliers aren't usually counted in statistics. The mean or average is what matters. The following video is great in emphasizing that the more you deviate from the mean IQ, the less predictive power the g factor has:
    Statistics doesn't make an individual who they are; the content of their character does that.

    Quote Originally Posted by serenesam View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaWghRkxKEU
    This is just spin to promote and try to justify racism. It's garbage from the get-go. It starts off with some dubious premises; for example, the claim that people do not get along well because they are different races - simply not true. There are plenty of individuals of different races who get along well with each other, and there are plenty of situations where individuals of the same race don't get along with each other. If this premise from an argument, it's an invalid conclusion given that in cases where there were individuals of different races not getting along with each other could have been for some other reason rather than because of their race. Maybe there are some individuals who don't get along because they're of different races; all that shows is that they're racists & they're probably racists because they were raised that way or they're impressionable by someone who they look up to who is a racist and persuaded them to be racist.

    I don't get along well with racists (regardless of their race), and I can get along with individuals who aren't racists; this means I don't get along well with individuals of the same race, not because they're the same race, but because they're racists. If I don't get along with someone who isn't racist, it's not because they're not a racist.

    The next claim is "diversity leads to fewer friends, less truth, and lower [overall] life satisfaction". This is unsound, because excluding others based on their race being different results in less options or opportunities for choices of friends. Being friends with only those who are the same race as you can lead to depriving or denying yourself from access to other perspectives on life & reality; typically this leads to being friends with only fellow racists of the same race means you're surrounding yourself with ignorant and uneducated individuals, meaning you'll end up being as ignorant and not as educated as you could've been had you not excluded more knowledgeable, more informed, and well educated non-racists.

    Being a racist practically implies being inherently dissatisfied with life and maybe even being rather unhealthy, because it arbitrarily means having to hate or have contempt for someone because of their ethnicity, and that's because the racist is forcing themselves to believe something that has no truth or reason to it. Trying to force yourself to believe something that isn't true or reasonable (including lying & cognitive dissonance) can probably be perpetually stressful & prolonged stress is not healthy. Let's consider that maybe it goes even further than that - it might lead to depression and paranoia. I don't see anything satisfying about stress, depression, or paranoia.

    I recommend hearing what someone like JF has to say about these kinds of issues, instead:


    Quote Originally Posted by serenesam View Post
    My bad, the key word here is actually "more likely" instead of "might."
    That doesn't make a different to the point I'm referring to; the point is it's not a word that expresses certainty, such as "are" or "are not".
    Last edited by Neil; 03-12-2017 at 07:42 AM.
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  9. #19
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    Hey Neil....could you possibly put all that stuff posted above into just one sentence?

  10. #20
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    Racism is always a fallacy to the racists....

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