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Thread: Why Dystopia?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Do you think many movies are neither dystopian nor utopian? If so, what would be a few examples of this?

    One example that comes to my mind is Apollo 13, but that's mainly about an incident predominantly based on a true story that wasn't fictional per se, aside from a few slight or superficial changes that may have been made to it for dramatic effect.

    Another thing that comes to my mind is the 1997 Titanic movie; that's different from Apollo 13 being based on a true story in that even though it involves something that really did happen (the sinking of a large ship that struck an iceberg), it's actually mainly a fictional story involving a mix of passengers who actually were on the ship and characters who never really existed in real life. It's also a story within a story; the main story is about a completely fictional "present day" treasure hunter.

    That situation and answer to that question is my point. In essence, what I'm asking is this: is it just money that matters, is it money and something else, or is it only the "something else" that really matters?
    Yeah of course there are many movies out there that are focused on neither in all different genres. I brought up this question mainly coming from the type of Sci-fi movies I've been watching lately that are usually based on a Future society. And they continue to be set in Dystopian like environments and I wish I could see more of them based on Utopian ones.

    Interesting analyses on the Titanic movie you did there. I've never seen it but the way you break it down like that, I might give it a shot. I was never interested in that movie because it always just seemed like a story based on a Romantic account which is not my cup of tea. But we'll see.

    To your question. What really matters I think is how we are Perceived/Judged in our communities. But that becomes very complicated because we have communities within communities in our lives that go by different standards. So if you live in a community that is Less Materialistic, once you step out of it you are now going to fall under a new set of standards that may be completely opposite of that but the point is How you will still be seen by this community on what matters to them as important so then it will become important for you also to fit that mold. I think that's the essence of it. What really matters is where we stand in the eyes of the greater community being what we care about the most and that ultimately is set by what the community Values as being most worthy to someone's life.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
    Yeah of course there are many movies out there that are focused on neither in all different genres. I brought up this question mainly coming from the type of Sci-fi movies I've been watching lately that are usually based on a Future society. And they continue to be set in Dystopian like environments and I wish I could see more of them based on Utopian ones.
    Ok, so it seems the "problem" may actually be that movies set in the future pretty much end up having to be of the "sci-fi" genre (How can you make a movie about the future that isn't?), and they usually entail the future as a dystopia rather than the future as less of a dystopia than the present. I think I see your point: why aren't there more movie about the future that makes it seem like much less of a dystopia than the present?

    Let's write a story about a future that's less of a dystopia than the present. I think we may have the perfect title for it: Why Dystopia?

    BTW, there is a movie being worked on by someone who is part of TZM, in case you've never heard of the project:

    http://www.haraldsando.com/my-first-feature-film-scene/


    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
    Interesting analyses on the Titanic movie you did there. I've never seen it but the way you break it down like that, I might give it a shot. I was never interested in that movie because it always just seemed like a story based on a Romantic account which is not my cup of tea. But we'll see.
    I basically felt the same way before I watched it, too; but after having watched it, that's one of the movies in my DVD collection. It is based on a romantic account, but it's only a little more of that kind of content than the romantic account between Han Solo and Princess Leia, in the Star Wars movies. Personally the biggest "downside" part of the movie is the amount of time it spends on what's going on while the ship is sinking; I think they probably could've cut out some of the parts in that segment so it wouldn't have to be over 3 hours long. Most of the second half of the movie involves the things going on while the ship is sinking & it's not so bad when you watch it the first time; it's when you watch it again later on after having watched it a couple times that it's a little stale.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
    To your question. What really matters I think is how we are Perceived/Judged in our communities. But that becomes very complicated because we have communities within communities in our lives that go by different standards. So if you live in a community that is Less Materialistic, once you step out of it you are now going to fall under a new set of standards that may be completely opposite of that but the point is How you will still be seen by this community on what matters to them as important so then it will become important for you also to fit that mold. I think that's the essence of it. What really matters is where we stand in the eyes of the greater community being what we care about the most and that ultimately is set by what the community Values as being most worthy to someone's life.
    But wait a second - the greater of society imposes itself on communities; the greater of society consists of individuals in other communities who generally see communities they're not part of as out of sight & out of mind (or I guess you can say don't see). Because of this, that greater aspect of society isn't part of the community that perceives or judges us, yet it matters because it imposes things on our communities. Let's revisit that question after you've watched Titanic, since I was asking based on its content; maybe then you might be able to see where I was coming from. Regarding your response, though, do you happen to be familiar with the notion of a gift economy?
    Last edited by Neil; 02-02-2016 at 05:11 AM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    LOL yeah but not Ted the Canadian.

    I simply acknowledged some similarities between the two, something many others have as well. You selected an alternative avenue....and that's OK....we don;t have to agree....only respectfully debate.

    Q; What is it with this 'baiting' behavior anyway? If you've got a problem with me just SPIT it OUT....my hide can handle it.....its not like you're firing live rounds or anything.....

    After all Neil; Aren't you the one who started a complete thread (Abundance is an Illusion) just for me ....and then quickly and quietly abandoned it once it got to be a bit too much? If there's a question left unanswered, perhaps its do to the (rightly or wrongly) perceived tone.....so go ahead....ASK AGAIN




    Why dystopia? Perhaps Humans secretly love witnessing the misery of others....or for some, its how we increase our compassion....for the majority I suspect it fills a desire to feel better about their current lives...to dwell in a future for an hour or so where its even worse.....but good guys can sometimes win





    **You could PM me if you really wanted an opinion......but TBH, I'm more interested in whether your bees are still alive.....


    ***apologies to any who have been bothered by the sparing between myself and my friend, Neil****
    Last edited by droneBEE; 02-02-2016 at 05:50 AM.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    I simply acknowledged some similarities between the two, something many others have as well. You selected an alternative avenue....and that's OK....we don;t have to agree....only respectfully debate.
    Yes, I get that what you're talking about is similarities between the two & that's fine if you disagree with me. Neither you nor anyone else is required to agree with me. I might press pretty hard on some issues, but that doesn't mean I'm right or wrong about them.

    The reason I brought up McCarthy is because issues with movies and conspiracies was brought up in the OP & I was wondering what the relation or relevance of McCarthyism might have been the OP. You see some relevance between McCarthy & Ted Cruz, and that's fine; you wanted to mention Ted Cruz on this thread & that's fine too; I responded the way I did because you're dwelling on Ted Cruz and I just wasn't sure what he has to do with conspiracies and dystopia in movies (maybe he does, but at this point I still don't know).

    All I'm getting at is that if you want to talk about Ted Cruz, McCarthyism, and how the two relate to each other, that's fine & maybe it makes for an interesting topic; but unless it has something to do with conspiracies and dystopia in movies, maybe it would be better if you started a separate thread for that topic; that's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    Q; What is it with this 'baiting' behavior anyway? If you've got a problem with me just SPIT it OUT....my hide can handle it.....its not like you're firing live rounds or anything.....
    LOL I think maybe you're making a bigger deal out of this than necessary. I don't have a problem with you; I think you're just a very active participant on this forum & I have much to say in response to your activity. Don't take it the wrong way; I'm just trying to challenge things when I perceive a drawback or something with it.

    Let me put it this way to explain at least one reason why I'm doing that: if I'm challenging something stated (not just by you but by anyone & it makes no difference who they are to me), then I can pretty much assure you that there are others out in the rest of that society that TZM wants to spread awareness to, who will either challenge it with far more scrutiny or simply dismiss it as nonsense, and they'll remain on the path they're going down while at the same time dragging us with them.

    EDIT: here's an example of what I mean; check out the kind of responses from folks such as helmuth_hubener here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...uglas-Mallette

    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    After all Neil; Aren't you the one who started a complete thread (Abundance is an Illusion) just for me ....and then quickly and quietly abandoned it once it got to be a bit too much? If there's a question left unanswered, perhaps its do to the (rightly or wrongly) perceived tone.....so go ahead....ASK AGAIN
    You're right; I feel like I have several threads I need to get back to and I still do want to do that. I sometimes get too busy with my job or other things I'm working on and end up with a backlog of all kinds of things that I want to take care of or catch up with; and when I'm no longer tied up I'll do things like create new threads, because they're what come to mind and I want to get it out there with the "momentum" I have to do that. I'll try to bump up the "abundance is an illusion" thread on my priority list; I still have a couple more things I want to add to the "science toolkit" thread, then I'll go back to the "abundance is an illusion" thread to shift into gear for it, refresh my memory about it, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    Why dystopia? Perhaps Humans secretly love witnessing the misery of others....or for some, its how we increase our compassion....for the majority I suspect it fills a desire to feel better about their current lives...to dwell in a future for an hour or so where its even worse.....but good guys can sometimes win
    Well, what about curiosity for what solutions those in the dystopia come up with or do to cope with it? One of the things I notice is that it seems like almost everything we do for entertainment is to try to learn something. The only thing I've come up with as an example of something done purely for entertainment and not to learn something or get information is to listen to music without lyrics.

    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    **You could PM me if you really wanted an opinion......but TBH, I'm more interested in whether your bees are still alive....
    Thanks for asking about my bees; some of the hives collapsed, but we believe the rest of them swarmed because of a lack of resources at the location where the hives were set up. Basically they were in a lousy spot on the side of a mountain range with tons of trees but not that many flowers. At first we kept providing them with more sugar water than we thought we should have, then for a while they were thriving because for a brief amount of time they had plenty of raspberries. It seems like the bees swarmed a few weeks after the raspberries no longer had any more pollen or nectar to offer them; at that time we had stopped providing them with sugar water.

    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    ***apologies to any who have been bothered by the sparing between myself and my friend, Neil****
    LOL
    Last edited by Neil; 02-02-2016 at 07:37 AM.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    why aren't there more movie about the future that makes it seem like much less of a dystopia than the present?

    Let's write a story about a future that's less of a dystopia than the present. I think we may have the perfect title for it: Why Dystopia?

    But wait a second - the greater of society imposes itself on communities; the greater of society consists of individuals in other communities who generally see communities they're not part of as out of sight & out of mind (or I guess you can say don't see). Because of this, that greater aspect of society isn't part of the community that perceives or judges us, yet it matters because it imposes things on our communities. Let's revisit that question after you've watched Titanic, since I was asking based on its content; maybe then you might be able to see where I was coming from. Regarding your response, though, do you happen to be familiar with the notion of a gift economy?
    Yes, more movies around a Utopian setting or an evolution to it in the Future rather than purely Dystopian ones where humans are fighting Aliens, A.I., Social Classes... Like I said before, I do believe that Great, Inspiring stories can be developed around a Utopian society with the right talent & creativity working towards that kind of goal. First come up with captivating events & scenes and work to connect them in a way that will keep you fascinated & entertained. I don't really read that much Sci-Fi Books but I'm sure that some of the Utopian based ones already have great stories/ideas that can become movies or used for developing one so that would be pretty cool too.

    Yeah I was looking at the bigger picture on how that question would relate in our societies. To connect what you said in the way I see things is that for example. You may be from a Working Class community and that's one part of your identity right. But then you are also a person into Fitness & Health so you are also part of this smaller community too. The ones who are Not part of this Fit/Hlth community will see you as 'Different, Weird' etc.. which like you say will probably manifest in "out of sight & out of mind (or I guess you can say don't see)" type of behavior because of their perceived Less Importance. So basically we fall into various categories where we are regularly assessed on how well we fit into those patterns & commonalities.

    A Gift Economy is a Moneyless Economy, No? If it is then we will be depending more on each other to Help provide everyone with basic necessities right. I'm down with that.
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  6. #26
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    I did mention the "Celestine Prophesy" earlier in this thread. Since it received no comment, one can only assume no one else here has read it. Although its easily 10 years old, it remains the most uplifting/utopian example of a possible future I've seen. I recommend it to all seeking an alternative to the despotic....the dystopian....





    Neil; Check out the latest edition of the American Bee Journal, there's a excellent Q & A w/ Tom Seeley you may find informative about 'treatment free' (purpose of swarms to prevent disease) beekeeping.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    I did mention the "Celestine Prophesy" earlier in this thread. Since it received no comment, one can only assume no one else here has read it. Although its easily 10 years old, it remains the most uplifting/utopian example of a possible future I've seen. I recommend it to all seeking an alternative to the despotic...
    will read it. But you know the Culture series? The stories themselves are about the RBE society and the fringes of that society.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by YaseaP View Post
    will read it. But you know the Culture series? The stories themselves are about the RBE society and the fringes of that society.
    Yes, yes, the Culture series (I'd forgotten) even better...and w/ less ahhh, how to put it? .... Celestine Prophecy has a spiritual element that some TZM folks may be put off by....but if looked at from an evolutionary perspective it just makes the reader..... feel good I guess. of what may be possible without our ego's playing us...or is it our culture that is playing us due to our ego's? Hmmmm?

    (The Ale tastes pretty good today think I'll have another)

    Thanks...

    I'm truly embarrassed; Had no idea there were so many books in the Culture series... ...my last one was "Use of Weapons" (1990) ...guess I've missed some...but my tastes have likely changed too...

    Space travel used to intrigued me a great deal when young, but since there's no longer any chance of my going anywhere very soon the focus is very much on our Mother and her survival....along with clear nights reserved for stargazing...
    Last edited by droneBEE; 02-03-2016 at 05:04 PM.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Let me put it this way to explain at least one reason why I'm doing that: if I'm challenging something stated (not just by you but by anyone & it makes no difference who they are to me), then I can pretty much assure you that there are others out in the rest of that society that TZM wants to spread awareness to, who will either challenge it with far more scrutiny or simply dismiss it as nonsense, and they'll remain on the path they're going down while at the same time dragging us with them.

    EDIT: here's an example of what I mean; check out the kind of responses from folks such as helmuth_hubener here: Awakening Full movie by Douglas Mallette
    Ha, I read some of that thread in that RPForum and It's almost like I get these Flashbacks.

    You know it's kind of funny how these people like to repeat the Same kind of examples & attitudes over & over again. Incapable of bringing wider perspectives with deeper reasoning in their arguments. It almost makes you wonder about their Mechanical responses? Possible 'A.I.'s' here already for the Wrong reasons maybe hmmm?

    The irony is that they're the ones who oppose using Science & Technology to move us forward and Fear Robots taking over but they act like Robots thinking & behaving like everyone else. Maybe that's it. They Fear being easily replaced by Technology because they are unable to use their Human Technology for what it was designed to do. To Question, Analyze, Reason, Discern, Awareness, Think for themselves.. ..

    Back to Movies. That Waking Up Movie Trailer looks pretty promising. I hope they get a chance to make it one day and Without having to settle for something less for Financial reasons because I think that story can be something special. And what about that new P.J. Production. Is that this year? And I wonder if that's going to fall under the Utopian realm because if it does, it might be an Epic experince!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
    A Gift Economy is a Moneyless Economy, No? If it is then we will be depending more on each other to Help provide everyone with basic necessities right. I'm down with that.
    A Gift Economy is a type of Moneyless Economy, a Moneyless Economy is not necessarily a Gift Economy.

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