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Thread: How to apply TZM principals to the world quickly

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tornadoborn View Post
    I wrote a reply to your post. It got lost somehow. I'll try again later. I have to get busy. I am an arborist. The trees are calling.
    Be sure to check the "remember me" box when you log in; that way it won't time out on you. I have a question for you as an arborist, but I don't know if it's too technical (if it is that's ok don't worry about providing an answer): do you happen to know much about the tensile strength to extract a tree from the ground, as a function of diameter or cross-sectional area of the trunk base? I'm asking because I'm trying to build a hand tool for extracting small trees, bushes, shrubs, brooms, or other plants with a woody or hard trunk/base no more than 3" in diameter. There are existing versions on the market, but I'm working on an improved version. I'm also thinking that landscaping businesses would be my main customers.
    Last edited by Neil; 2 Weeks Ago at 04:51 PM.
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  2. #12
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    People will start listening eventually. It's only a matter of how much destruction can be done before that.
    I just wish we weren't in this situation where like the entire bloody world is almost completely against one of the greatest things that could ever happen to it, simply because of arrogance and misinformation.
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  3. #13
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    droneBee: Your post was well received. I understand what you said, but here is a reply related. I am a 48 year veteran of the martial arts. Punches to my face seldom land. Insults don't get delivered to me face-to-face. I have vowed to non-violence except in self-defense or to defend others. Still, I know what you meant. Some take liberties they would never take when they are remote or when they are taking those liberties with the protection of a digital media. It is pretty pathetic. I appreciate you encouragement. It is not easy to get.

    When I attained unconditional love in 1971, a vision of the world in which everyone loves everyone came to me. Since then I have been dedicated to doing what I can to manifest that vision. I have never stopped and I have tried to explain the vision and my mission to manifest it to so many people enumeration is not possible. The responses have been troubling, but they soon became repetitive. I am astonished by the lack of originality and uniqueness. It has been a lesson in psychology, like a Rorschach test. By this time, I am certain the vision is going to come to pass. I have trouble being patient waiting for it. Still, I have some comfort from some very old literature and stories.

    The Torah, the Old Testament, and the New Testament are filled with stories about God trying to get man to love one another. Even in the presence of astonishing miracles the people have proven to be "stiff necked." Even in the Garden of Eden the people could not let love guide them. These are stories to me. I don't take them literally. But I take wisdom where ever I can find it. Considering the Jesus story makes me persevere. "Love one another as I have loved you," rings down through the ages and resounds in my heart. Jesus wanted the people to know what unconditional love is, but he also wanted us to know what true love is. The story in the Bible says he sacrificed his torture and life for others. True love makes the loved ones more important than the self. My opinions of the life of Jesus do not coincide with the Bible story, and I would not have brought it up had you not done so already. I take religion as a personal relationship and hope we can all let it be so.

    The work I have done over the decades can only be counted as the planting of seeds. The work I am now doing it more. I am trying to join with TZM with an idea that could hasten to fruition of the mission TZM proposes. I can't describe the depth of joy I get listening to and reading the words of Peter Joseph. It is like finding a seed that has sprouted and begun to propagate.
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  4. #14
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    Neil: Thanks for the tip. I will try to locate the box and check it.
    The variables you are doing to face are beyond the scope of this communication. Soil condition, root vigor, species, climate, and many other smaller things determine how hard is is to pull a young tree from the earth. There is also the bond between the bark and xylem of the tree. Some bark slips off easily while some are more tightly attacked. Also, pulling on the trunk of a tree damages the vascular bundles and could even kill the cambium making the extraction unwise. Pulling a tree from the earth breaks a lot of roots. Now, trees can withstand a lot of root loss, but pulling on the trunk causes damage to the roots in ways that do not occur when digging one from the earth.Such damage could be fatal and would certainly cause the tree manifold problems, many of which might not be apparent for some time. Other plants, like shrubs, might be types that can be pulled without too much damage. Maybe you have heard of the tree spade. What makes it work is that it cuts the roots before it pulls. Tree properly care for before and after the act, can withstand as much as eighty percent root loss. Remember, the hair roots are the ones that eat and drink. They get lost first during extraction without first cutting the roots. In my entire career I have never seen a tree treated right in either the extraction or the planting. I get paid well to consult with people who spent a lot of money getting a tree planted. It is not as easy to do right as seems to be the popular opinion.

    Some tree, like pecan, have long central roots that grow deep quickly. I have never been able to pull a pecan tree from the earth, not even on that is 1/4 inch in diameter. I sure don't want to seem negative about your project. I have been tending trees professionally since 1973. I don't know everything. I hope it becomes possible to pull a tree without killing it. Good luck. One thing I can add. If the soil is very wet and loose, a tree could be pulled successfully.

  5. #15
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    Cyborg-Rox

    Thanks for the encouragement. Planting seeds is a patience requiring activity, for sure.

    I have lamented the fact that people too often have to get hungry or afraid for change to take place. I pray and beg for the destruction to stop and certainly not to get worse. Can you imagine what would happen if humans suddenly quite simple caring for all the stuff we have put here? It is unthinkable even if there were no toxic things that would begin to spill into the world. The nuclear stuff could mean the end of Earth's ability to have any form of life. The only way to change the world is by means of incredibly wise and intelligent transition. In this world, unemployment could lead to global catastrophe so bad there would be no possibility of survival or recovery. Just unemployment! Money is require for everything. Starving people are dangerous, even crazy. People becoming disillusioned too quickly is very dangerous. Long held and entrenched beliefs are nothing to yank from a person. People will have to be mellowed into higher consciousness.

    You mention arrogance and misinformation. Pride is judged against far too much, but arrogance that is condescending is something that my opinion spurns. Pride has a right place and is a necessary human condition. All deserve it and need it. I always say what I am now going to say with trepidation, but I will say it anyway: everyone always and inevitably does the best they can. The entirety of circumstances including those of one's person, time, place, etc..dictate every action and thought. There is only the appearance of choice and freedom. I don't know anyone yet who can not be who they are, where they are, or when they are. A person's best varies with all those things and others I will not get into here. I've never played a better game of pool than I could at the time. My choices in life are limited by all the circumstances. Change is inevitable and one's best changes. What matters is what will come of our actions. We must find a common ground upon which to stand together. To do that we have to have a plan that we all want to bring about. I say a world without a monetary system is a possible idea. Why can't we all work together for the mutual benefit of all? The condition of all would become something never seen before. Every person would be influenced toward love. All new born people would experience a world never before extant.

    The information that we acquire becomes a matter of opinion far too much. Sadly, there are very many things that cannot be ascertained with any certainty and opinion becomes all there is. Right or wrong, opinions are opinions. When you love someone with true and unconditional love, opinions become something that can be shared, examined, and held in beneficial ways. The psychology of too many people today does not permit this. Let love work. It seems to be growing and spreading. I see bright light in the future. Let me say this; what is in store for us, for Life, is not broadly conceived yet, but it will be. It is an ineffable future of beauty and wonder beyond the conceptual ability of... well, too many.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tornadoborn View Post
    droneBee: Your post was well received. I understand what you said, but here is a reply related. I am a 48 year veteran of the martial arts. Punches to my face seldom land. Insults don't get delivered to me face-to-face. I have vowed to non-violence except in self-defense or to defend others. Still, I know what you meant. Some take liberties they would never take when they are remote or when they are taking those liberties with the protection of a digital media. It is pretty pathetic. I appreciate you encouragement. It is not easy to get.

    When I attained unconditional love in 1971, a vision of the world in which everyone loves everyone came to me. Since then I have been dedicated to doing what I can to manifest that vision. I have never stopped and I have tried to explain the vision and my mission to manifest it to so many people enumeration is not possible. The responses have been troubling, but they soon became repetitive. I am astonished by the lack of originality and uniqueness. It has been a lesson in psychology, like a Rorschach test. By this time, I am certain the vision is going to come to pass. I have trouble being patient waiting for it. Still, I have some comfort from some very old literature and stories.

    The Torah, the Old Testament, and the New Testament are filled with stories about God trying to get man to love one another. Even in the presence of astonishing miracles the people have proven to be "stiff necked." Even in the Garden of Eden the people could not let love guide them. These are stories to me. I don't take them literally. But I take wisdom where ever I can find it. Considering the Jesus story makes me persevere. "Love one another as I have loved you," rings down through the ages and resounds in my heart. Jesus wanted the people to know what unconditional love is, but he also wanted us to know what true love is. The story in the Bible says he sacrificed his torture and life for others. True love makes the loved ones more important than the self. My opinions of the life of Jesus do not coincide with the Bible story, and I would not have brought it up had you not done so already. I take religion as a personal relationship and hope we can all let it be so.

    The work I have done over the decades can only be counted as the planting of seeds. The work I am now doing it more. I am trying to join with TZM with an idea that could hasten to fruition of the mission TZM proposes. I can't describe the depth of joy I get listening to and reading the words of Peter Joseph. It is like finding a seed that has sprouted and begun to propagate.
    Thanks for the insightful and kind words. Besides our interest in expanding TZM and a RBE, It appears we have some other things in common.

    Our age perhaps ( I think I'm one of the oldest dudes around here), a lifelong interest in Martial Arts (I belted in 3 styles by age 22, have practiced and taught Tai Chi/self defense for decades) and have a deep interest in Human Psychology, which must include a comprehensive understanding of religion (s) and how they have impacted us as a species... and continue to do so...

    Along the way, I'm hopeful that I've planted many seeds.... Some of them became weeds, some became flowers, many simply wilt and die....Yet, all choose their own path...

    I'll be looking forward to more of your thoughts....

    "The only path to realizing unconditional LOVE is to 'give' Love unconditionally"
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  7. #17
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    Thanks for the message, droneBee. My master here in Austin is John Blankenship. You can easily learn about him at Blankenship Martial Arts - Karate, Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do, and Tai Chi in Austin Texas but you will not find information as to his belts. It seems he has little concern for such designations. I will say this, he ranks very high in many styles. I consider him to be somewhat of a super -human based on what he can do. At my age, born 1950, I need to get back into training, but I have other goals that mean more to me. I grow weary of trying to save the world and intend to retire to the ancient trees in California. That's when I will return to training along with meditation and health practices that few would.

    I feel that the TZM is going to take the ball and score the touchdown. I just thought it might find some momentum by hearing the idea of The Power of the People. Consider it a play called at the line of scrimmage. I intend to ascend, but my love for others has kept me trying. Maybe now that TZM seems to be promoting the ideas I have been exposing people to since 1971 maybe I can rest.

    The plans that can be put into place for society by TZM are likely destiny. Once society becomes something that reflects the true nature of the people, it will be easier for the people to move toward the light. People must first come to love. I hope that is a requirement. It seems to be. Once love is attained, wonders that I have not tried often to relate to others come into view. It is just ineffable splendor.

    I enjoyed your words about seed planting. That was well done and funny.

    I have posed the question to many; What comes after you attain love? I know what came after for me. I'll not attempt to answer that question for others, but I will say this, it made me want to save everyone. Love went from love for everyone to something else. I have come to love everything. Practicing harmlessness since 1971 by not eating things that can only be acquired by killing, including plants, and proving that killing is not necessary for nutrition is but one thing I do because of love. I love the rocks and the water and the fire and the air. I love how everything is unfolding. I love my heavenly parents, though I prefer to keep my spiritual parts private. Love given unconditionally will break your heart, but you will love having it broken. "I have known tears of joy from bliss that never wains for I know the joy true love brings. Life is an adventure I live with glee, nothing bad can happen to me. I like my days to be long. Sorrow is not woe unto me. Pain does not hurt. Death is my friend and fear is my ally." I think I wrote that in the late seventies. It's just the facts.
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  8. #18
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    Maybe it's just me, but I have always thought that the way we see things is vital. If you see something that scares you, you behave a certain way. If you think of something a certain way, you respond a certain way. From this assumption can be derived a possible method of influencing behavior in oneself and others. So, I have spent considerable time trying to expose people to a view that seems so obvious to me I have trouble putting it into words yet is found to be vastly unseen by others. The view I am referring to is that of money.

    I have written about it on The Power of the People and other places. I have discussed it with many individuals and groups. Money is not being seen from all angles. I can tell you that much. People at large do not realize that money is the denominator of one's access to the products of society. Since society is designed to differentiate access to the products of society, some form of regulating mechanism is needed. If access is granted equally to all, there is no such need.

    Obama said you didn't build that business, to put it in my words. Everything you do you are able to do because you live in a vast and complex society that has been going for centuries. Society has bequeathed to you and to me a world of incomparable wealth, refinement, and complexity. Every single one of us are members of this society. If you went to school and became a physicist, doctor, engineer, philosopher, laborer or anything else, you went to that school that exists as a result of the work by individuals in a society now and in the past. Every person who works is simply contributing their time and effort to society. I think Obama just didn't communicate the point well enough.

    We are all heirs to the results of our ancestors whether destructive or creative. It all came to us and we use it as we do, but we don't use it independently of our heritage. We didn't make our heritage. None of us, unless you believe we did so in a previous incarnation, made what we inherited. Like it or not, we were born into a society that has been very busy for a very long time. Ours is the task of learning and, then, doing. It is behavior, action, doing, etc... I think that expanding and/or changing our views of things changes behavior. Changing our view of money can change our behavior so profoundly it can change the very nature of our existence. When we realize that money exists to limit our access to the products of society, we may come to see that as the very cause of many of the things that trouble us.

    Let's help people realize that there is no real reason to discriminate. Placing a value on the time and effort of a person is discrimination. It has a place in the monetary system that brought us to this time, but it is no longer necessary. There is abundance beyond measure. We will never be able to dent the supply. We can only challenge resources within a limited space and within a limiting system of acquisition and utilization. Peter Joseph makes this point much better than I do, but it can't be expressed too much. Imposing scarcity upon the people in order to maintain an antiquated and destructive system is not sensible or desirable, but it is desired by those who have come to power by the opportunity they found when they inherited the society we all inherited.

    We can change the opportunities society presents by ending the discrimination that money creates. Is it so hard to imagine a society in which we all work together and share together? It might make someone have trouble thinking they are better than someone else, but that it not too high a price to pay. The Divine Right of Kings must become an historical phenomenon. Class must follow suite. We are all together in this. What we do together will determine the future. So far, what we are doing together is creating some pretty dismal outlooks. It is my hope that coming to the point of view that money is simply the means by which access to the products of society is discriminated will assist us.
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  9. #19
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    Yes exactly right. Money had its uses a long time ago but now it has simply become an antiquated idea that does more harm than good. Money attempts to represent the Resources available to us but in reality it's only representing an accepted Belief in an idea that has no real purpose for the true necessities of Life. And those are the Resources we Need to Live on this Planet and not some belief in some currency that gives us this right. And now with Money, you need to have a level of Scarcity which makes this whole system bound to Fail for many. Only our Illogical way of thinking can keep us from understanding this basic part of it. Because with the use of Money, comes the need for Scarcity. And if everything is going to have a level of Scarcity, how can there ever be enough Money for everyone to acquire the Resources they Need? So if you're building an Economic System with this ground rule built into it, how can we ever expect not to have all these basic problems we've continued to have under Economic Systems that use Money?

    "the proof is in the pudding"
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tornadoborn View Post
    Neil: Thanks for the tip. I will try to locate the box and check it.
    The variables you are doing to face are beyond the scope of this communication. Soil condition, root vigor, species, climate, and many other smaller things determine how hard is is to pull a young tree from the earth. There is also the bond between the bark and xylem of the tree. Some bark slips off easily while some are more tightly attacked. Also, pulling on the trunk of a tree damages the vascular bundles and could even kill the cambium making the extraction unwise. Pulling a tree from the earth breaks a lot of roots. Now, trees can withstand a lot of root loss, but pulling on the trunk causes damage to the roots in ways that do not occur when digging one from the earth.Such damage could be fatal and would certainly cause the tree manifold problems, many of which might not be apparent for some time. Other plants, like shrubs, might be types that can be pulled without too much damage. Maybe you have heard of the tree spade. What makes it work is that it cuts the roots before it pulls. Tree properly care for before and after the act, can withstand as much as eighty percent root loss. Remember, the hair roots are the ones that eat and drink. They get lost first during extraction without first cutting the roots. In my entire career I have never seen a tree treated right in either the extraction or the planting. I get paid well to consult with people who spent a lot of money getting a tree planted. It is not as easy to do right as seems to be the popular opinion.

    Some tree, like pecan, have long central roots that grow deep quickly. I have never been able to pull a pecan tree from the earth, not even on that is 1/4 inch in diameter. I sure don't want to seem negative about your project. I have been tending trees professionally since 1973. I don't know everything. I hope it becomes possible to pull a tree without killing it. Good luck. One thing I can add. If the soil is very wet and loose, a tree could be pulled successfully.
    You're welcome; it should be very easy to find, right next to where you type in your name & password.

    Here's an example of one tool that either is or was on the market (there are others, such as the Puller Bear, Extractigator, and Brush Grubber):


    This is essentially what I was thinking of, until I found this Root Jack, but it only has a 1.5" max. diameter and some essential design improvements that it needs (e.g., having that flat "blade" for a fulcrum has its problems). I'm also going to add some other improvements that I'm not going to mention here (for various reasons). I originally thought of it when I was with some friends trying to clear an area to plants flowers for some beehives we had, and noticed that the guy who owned the land was using a digging bar to try to remove these kinds of plants and how time consuming it was. I also figured if I think of something, 99 times out of a 100 someone has already done it. Sure enough after digging around online, I found the Puller Bear & bought one. It works well but I think the Root Jack would be easier to use.

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