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Thread: We Are Communists

  1. #1
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    We Are Communists

    Well, almost identical with Anarchist Communism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism) anyways, not that it would change my mind about supporting a RBE, but when people tell us that we are "Commies", I guess we sort of are, just not in the way they think. In all of the world's history, there really has never been a true Communist state in history since they all advocate for no government (or at least all the forms I have studied thus far have).
    droneBEE likes this.
    "We have it in our power to begin the world over again." - Thomas Paine

  2. #2
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    Just because there might be some resemblances/similarities between systems, I wouldn't necessarily categorize them as the same thing. I believe that if you had both of these type of Systems operating at the same time. You would be able to distinguish from the two the different ways they impact the lives of those in them.
    HAL9000 and droneBEE like this.

  3. #3
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    der has been communism, der has nvr been any endfase of it doe like karl said woud ebb out in a statefree society, it has always stayd in d previous staydjes n just bcom wurse, cuba mite b an xeption where it has been workin' francly "gud" dey still have censur n opinion cops everywhere. I dont get y anarcist/anarco-socialist identify w/ communism so, under d revolution in russia every anarcist dat first joind in d strugel 2 overthrow d sar were killed afterwards cus dey wanned a statefree society communism has everything agenst dem.
    Last edited by Lifee; 03-06-2017 at 11:44 AM.
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  4. #4
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    > Kraftwerk - We Are The Robots

    To me, RBE is a constantly evolving solution, taking the best from each ideological solution out there, adding and subtracting parts as better solutions are discovered.

    I find if I talk to left wing folk about it, they consider it a right wing thing, and if I talk to right wing folk about it, they consider it a left wing thing..

    If I talk to people in the middle, they look blankly at me. :-)
    droneBEE, Ernest and HAL9000 like this.

  5. #5
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    We've been referred to as "communism with robots" (or a group that advocates it, anyways). That's not what bothers me; what does bother me is trying to implement the communism part without the robots part. It could also be anarchism with robots; at that point I don't see the difference.

  6. #6
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    Draft of a Communist Confession of Faith

    To take a historical perspective in order to compare an RBE with Communism, let us examine the proposal to link the Communist party line with spirituality. Corrections and opinions are welcome where I may not reach the best possible answer to represent an RBE version of the questions and answers. Direct quotes from the Draft of a Communist Confession of faith are written in red.

    Question 1: Are you a Communist?
    Answer: Yes


    Question 1: Are you an RBE advocate?
    Answer: As long as being one perpetuates the survival of the species, social and physical well-being of all the world's people and dynamic equilibrium with the habitat.

    Question 2: What is the aim of the Communists?
    Answer: To organize society in such a way that every member of it can develop and use all his capabilities and powers in complete freedom and without thereby infringing the basic conditions of this society.


    Question 2: What is the aim of RBE advocates?
    Answer: To construct the means to produce economic access abundance free of servitude to its users and to elevate each human on the planet to their highest potential. This social and technological construct must not destroy the habitat or run out of life-sustaining resources. Through adapting to this environment a more peaceful and collaborative humankind is predicted to gradually emerge.

    Question 3: How do you wish to achieve this aim?
    Answer: By the elimination of private property and its replacement by community of property.


    Question 3: How do you wish to achieve this aim?
    Answer: By perpetuating technical and social developments which allow the whole population of humans to fulfill their needs as dictated by Maslow's hierarchy of needs' [2] lower two levels (physiological and safety needs) with ever smaller requirements of forms of currency, barter or human effort. The act of trivializing costs of living will make economic games of enslavement closer to obsolete, as the survival of another cannot be threatened by a human refusing to give to another what is needed for survival.

    Author's note: Jacque Fresco's statement about declaring all resources the common heritage of all the world's people is more a by-product of a transition period performed well than a means.

    Question 4: On what do you base your community of property?
    Answer: Firstly, on the mass of productive forces and means of subsistence resulting from the development of industry, agriculture, trade and colonisation, and on the possibility inherent in machinery, chemical and other resources of their
    infinite extension.

    Secondly, on the fact that in the consciousness or feeling of every individual there
    exist certain irrefutable basic principles which, being the result of the whole of
    historical development, require no proof.


    Question 4: On what do you base this system which provides for the whole population of humans?
    Answer: Firstly, the production capacity is reached and increasing through technology and industry. Production costs are constantly shrinking. Peoples' ability to pool and automatically monitor resources for advancing these goals is constantly increasing. Secondly, statistically significant scientific evidence points to reduction in physiological and social problems in the human population when economic inequality is reduced [3].

    Question 5: What are such principles?
    Answer: For example, every individual strives to be happy. The happiness of the individual is inseparable from the happiness of all, etc.


    Question 5:
    -

    Question 6: How do you wish to prepare the way for your community of property?
    Answer: By enlightening and uniting the proletariat.



    Question 6: How do you wish to prepare the way for this system which provides for the whole population of humans?

    Answer: By making available education and equipment to the whole human population with the possibilities of technology and the use of the scientific method in order to facilitate contribution to the perpetual development and maintenance of the system.

    <Author's note: If any reader wishes to create parallels for questions 7 to 12, I'll leave a spot open here, since they seem to focus on categorizations of people>

    Question 13:
    Then you do not believe that community of property has been possible at any time?
    Answer: No. Communism has only arisen since machinery and other inventions made it possible to hold out the prospect of an all-sided development, a happy existence, for all members of society. Communism is the theory of a liberation which was not possible for the slaves, the serfs, or the handicraftsmen, but only for the proletarians and hence it belongs of necessity to the 19th century and was not possible in any earlier period.


    Question 13
    Then you do not believe a resource-based economy has been possible at any time?
    Answer: No. The human population has been limited in its capability to produce and distribute what it requires. Insufficient knowledge, the suppression of technology, natural or human-made disasters and social arrangements which have focused on centralization of wealth with insufficient regard to human well-being have been obstacles of the kind of progress which is required to establish an RBE.

    Question 14: Let m go back to the sixth question. As you wish to prepare for community of property by the enlightening and uniting of the proletariat, then you reject revolution?

    Answer: We are convinced not only of the uselessness but even of the harmfulness of all conspiracies. We are also aware that revolutions are not made deliberately and arbitrarily but that everywhere and at all times they are the necessary consequence of circumstances which are not in any way whatever dependent either on the will or on the leadership of individual parties or of whole classes. But we also see that the development of the proletariat in almost all countries of the world is forcibly repressed by the possessing classes and that thus a revolution is being forcibly worked for by the opponents of communism. If, in the end, the oppressed proletariat is thus driven into a revolution, then we will defend the cause of the proletariat just as well by our deeds as now by our words.


    Question 14: Let me go back to the sixth question. As you wish to prepare for this system which provides by educating and empowering the whole human population, then you reject revolution?
    Answer: A violent revolution to break an established power system results in definition the loss of human life, destruction of the environment and loss of resources and capabilities required for continued survival. Violence increases tensions between groups, and is a failure to achieve cooperation. If an outside force oppresses RBE advocacy, non-violent means of confronting the oppressors are to be applied. Eventually outside actors observing the dialogue will determine the fate of any attempt at an RBE. An RBE is among other things a means to prevent the human species from self-destructing, so if an oppressor has its way and all RBE advocacy disappears, the species deserves the world it has helped to establish in doing so.

    Author's note: The questions and answers go up to number 22, but with these sources someone else can take a shot of their own at it. Also, if the audience requests, I can try to answer the rest.

    [1] Manifesto of the Communist Party - https://www.marxists.org/archive/mar.../Manifesto.pdf
    [2] Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs https://web.archive.org/web/20100211...tip/maslow.htm
    [3] The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better Wilkinson, Pickett, 2009

    TL;DR: Communism aims to drive groups of economic class against each other, RBE just makes such conflict absurd. Both Communism and RBE recognize advancing technology as necessary, as well as freeing humans from the economic struggles which bind them. This tends to be a selling point of this or that economic theory, aside from the religious narrative of earning one's living by the sweat of their brow. Communism uses abolition of private property as a means to their goals, whereas in an RBE the level of production is so high, the main reason for having property rights having to steal from others to make ends meet will disappear as people get used to the level of access.
    Ernest, droneBEE and HAL9000 like this.

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