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Thread: Scarcity in an RBE

  1. #21
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    I was providing a hypothetical example. (That the right idea will appeal to a broad audience.)
    "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. " --Friedrich Nietzsche

  2. #22
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    A better example would be who gets to stay at Buckingham Palace? More beaches can be built like Palm Island in Dubai, but historic places there is only one. Who gets to stay at Leonardo Davinchi's house? Lincoln's log cabin?

  3. #23
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    Historically, most of a societies 'best' ideas end up ignored, suppressed, or ridiculed. TZM will be no different, in fact its much scarier (and confusing) to some than communism in my 'limited' experience discussing TZM with those who have never heard of it.

    Geonomics as per Henry George is a perfect example of how we get rid of GOOD ideas. Some would even claim Democracy itself is suppressed, ignored and ridiculed in today's society.

    These are all things TZM leaders must consider as this movement picks up steam, which I remain hopeful….it will…..it must.
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  4. #24
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    The people who I've spoken to about this don't treat it seriously enough to find it frightening. They often just ignore it or mock it. I think our presence needs to increase substantially before the fear-mongering media starts demonizing and exaggerating our power--the way they did with the communist parties of the United States from the 50s to 60s.

    I haven't heard of Geonomics. Could you share some videos? I tried searching for it, but it seems to bring something else.
    "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. " --Friedrich Nietzsche

  5. #25
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    Hello..I'm new to TZM-type discussions so correct me if i'm wrong, i am still learning, but..

    I think this type of question is confusing because it assumes an imagined contradicting black&white reality where both current values\incentives\thought patterns AND complete RBE exist at the same time. The asker exists within this contradictory world usually first denying the possibility to even create RBE("people will never do it because X Y Z" or "X country will invade")...but then to prove that its impossible he uses a scenario where RBE already exists ("alright now it exists, but the people are still greedy bastards")

    In any case this confusion raises countless of these questions: "what if I want 5 cars? What if I go around murdering people and there is no traditional police around? Why would i want to give up my 50-room mansion? Am I going to have to give up my own house with that wonderful view to the beach???" Certainly these questions are interesting but I'll say each one can be dismantled to its "building blocks" to a point where it's redundant and nitpicking. For example one of the building blocks holding this question together is the confusion between WANTS and NEEDS which is perpetuated by capitalism. You cannot just "remove" these incentives in one day, which is why a Transition level is required, and why simulation is required. In the meantime people think greed is inherent and even good(capitalism requires consumption) so they will come up with a thousand of these "must-have" things.....(though notice how they will never find an example refering to actual life-sustaining needs..only cars and flying jets etc, a view to the beach)

    Anyway each of these questions usually arrives at the "human nature" argument...where people will argue it is "human nature" to want these things even when there is no housing problem and all humanity's needs are met. Basically you have to dismantle the "human nature" argument, removing the incentives, showing that they are not relevant in a post-scarcity world...This can happen on the level of discussion between 2 people, but on the whole needs to happen on a global level(the Transition part that everyone likes to ignore)
    Last edited by Joshua; 03-31-2014 at 04:39 AM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    The people who I've spoken to about this don't treat it seriously enough to find it frightening. They often just ignore it or mock it. I think our presence needs to increase substantially before the fear-mongering media starts demonizing and exaggerating our power--the way they did with the communist parties of the United States from the 50s to 60s.

    I haven't heard of Geonomics. Could you share some videos? I tried searching for it, but it seems to bring something else.
    Here's a link to the progress report which some may find useful.

    The Progress Report ╗ Tracking the spread of a transformative idea: geonomics

  7. #27
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    I think it's also very important to let the knowledge sink in that this society is not going to be established on the principle of individualism. There won't be a "My Home." The planet will be our home. Chances are, the vast majority of people will spend much of their time traveling from region to region.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimyhinss View Post
    I think it's also very important to let the knowledge sink in that this society is not going to be established on the principle of individualism. There won't be a "My Home." The planet will be our home. Chances are, the vast majority of people will spend much of their time traveling from region to region.
    Yes....agreed....Know;edge is KEY.....and the entire planet is our collective home....and its WEALTH, created through LABOR and the resources 'freely' provided by the Earth belong to ALL, not just those we've allowed to scam us into believing 'they' own 'our' world....and us....

    I think 'most folks' are content to hang close to their region or area of birth....although I've traveled quite a bit (in days past) not everyone is fond of traveling around....
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  9. #29
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    A society has both aspects - the individual and the collective, and they're both equally important. When one is ignored we have gotten an outcome that isn't good for either aspect of society, or for society in general. That's why what I think is important is to make sure there's balance between the two by not trying to put one before the other.

    Leaving both of them alone is the best thing to do for the sake of either one; when either one's not left alone, that's politics. The ancaps want to put the individual before the collective; the socialists want to put the collective before the individual. They're not leaving aspects of society alone, and we can see neither works so well or can be implemented (i.e., are there any ancap societies that last or have ever even existed?).

    Anarcho-capitalism removes the use of force in a capitalism-based socio-economic system from where it ought to be utilized, and socialism imposes the use of force in a capitalism-based socio-economic system where it ought not be utilized. They're just two different & opposite approaches utilized by crony capitalists for their personal benefit that takes advantage of a na´ve, unwitting public. Both approaches can be detrimental to society, except maybe for those crony capitalists who are doing those things.

  10. #30
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    @Neil

    Neil, I full heartedly agree with you that success is based on the fulfillment of society and it's members potential and state to maximize prosperity in regards to their needs and desires, collective and individually.

    Beyond that, it is important to recognize that the socialism you are referring to is "democratic" socialism, socialism centered on a capitalistic monetary system.

    The true and original (undistorted by capitalism) definition of socialism,

    A political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

    Which is one of the main features of an NLRBE & RBE.

    To quote droneBEE.

    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    Yes....agreed....Know;edge is KEY.....and the entire planet is our collective home....and its WEALTH, created through LABOR and the resources 'freely' provided by the Earth belong to ALL, not just those we've allowed to scam us into believing 'they' own 'our' world....and us....
    droneBEE, Spinout, HAL9000 and 1 others like this.

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