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Thread: Socialism defined by the World Socialist Movement

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    spinout...While you are describing precisely the form of Government we have in the U.S. ..it is NOT a Democracy, nor was it ever intended to be a Democracy.

    The FEAR of MOB RULE gave us the type of government practiced today....

    ...and What we have is a "Representative Republic"......whereby we select/elect someone else to do our 'thinking' for us.....:roll eyes: .... a purposely designed 'inactive' role for the people....What a JOKE that's been played on us, heh!
    It looks like a joke but I think you will find the system is geared for change when the people are ready to utilise it for their benefit. George Carlin describes it the best. Well sort of, he goes off on a tangent about not voting but I think its part of his routine. Basically garbage in garbage out is his message. Maybe if you were to sit down with him the conversation would be about electing representatives as opposed to politicians.

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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    The mission of TZM is to promote the application of the scientific method for social concern. Socialism has a far worse track record of accomplishing such a goal than free-market capitalism, so either socialism doesn't provide a way to pursue that mission, or it has some other mission. TZM and socialism have nothing meaningful in common; socialism is not what I think qualifies as a related organization.
    I wrote: Around the 8min mark is where your whole theory comes crashing down. The point I was highlighting was this: "TZM and socialism have nothing meaningful in common."

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    There's nothing there that does anything of the sort.
    The opening paragraph in the first link I provided says: "Central to the meaning of socialism is common ownership. This means the resources of the world being owned in common by the entire global population." How is this different to TZM direction of educating? In fact when I read this my consciousness reads it in JF voice from the Venus Project. However in the second link which is what you are referring to there was certainly things in common.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    The only thing I can imagine you're referring to is when PJ's trying to answer a question someone asked...
    Trying to? I think he did answer the question by giving an example or scenario regarding southern and latin America.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    ...by talking about ways to increase efficiency that might be used, by applying what he refers to as "these old socialist ideas in a high tech way".
    Marxist ideas I would say, which is another theorist who has theories which share common ideas with TZM (see link below). Todays high-tech wasn't around when he wrote his theories therefore they don't appear in his theories.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    I'm fine with ideas that are practical & efficient ideas that some like to describe as socialist, such as the state owning and operating the highway system.
    What about distribution of resources, scientific concerns to do with the environment, housing, healthcare systems, transportation away from individual car use, education to name a few.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    PJ's probably essentially referring to the type of thing that has been used to describe TVP & TZM as communism with robots.
    So there must be something that relates to socialism. What is it?

    Well we'll never get to talk about that and the content of the link I provided because of your insistent acts of aggression and the steamrolling of the thread to suit your agenda. You have done this on another post I started that went for the same length of this one, that ended up talking about you and not the content intended. Ive seen it on other post as well, and it is detrimental to this forum and the movement. Stick to one topic you understand before spouting off in others. Your response back here is a prime example you know nothing on this topic but wish to write as if you do. Not one reference to the link I provided in the whole tirade of hearsay that resembled an interview on fox news by some right-wing nut job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    The key words here are "with robots" or "in a high tech way",because that's not the same as getting things from someone somewhere exerting manual labor to produce it.
    No the key words in this thread is 'socialism' and 'socialist' that's why I referred to the PJ link which pointed out how your "theory" (more-so observation) was wrong.

    In this link you will find some points about technology. You will also find some reference to Thomas Malthus a theorist PJ talks at length about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    If that's the best you can find, then my "theory" (as you put it) is in perfectly sound condition.
    Just because I can't find something that you approve of doesn't reflect if your "theory" is true or not. Thats like saying 2+2=4 only if spinout can find it. This doesn't make sense!! So no your theory is not sound, refer above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Instead of trying to come to this forum to spread socialism, why not go to socialist forums to spread TZM awareness?
    If you took the time to look at the site you may have found this here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    I'm here on this message board discussing TZM stuff and posting Jacque Fresco clips all the time; what have you done on behalf of TZM?
    I think a big problem is that people come to this forum knowing what the end result of a RBE would be like but lack the foresight and knowledge in how to get there. And when ideas come up that clash with their world view they think its an attack on them. The whole point of this thread was to talk about the commonalities to the WSM, and on that path I was hoping to shed some light on matters people were not aware of.

    The sabotaging of this thread by you is not helpful, so in future threads started by me, I would appreciate you don't contribute unless you have something positive to add. Thanks in advance.

    And for the record I find many of the links you provide by JF, off point to the discussions being made. This is not an attack on you just an observation. Maybe something to reflect on.
    Last edited by Spinout; 1 Week Ago at 09:57 PM.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    There's nothing there that does anything of the sort. The only thing I can imagine you're referring to is when PJ's trying to answer a question someone asked by talking about ways to increase efficiency that might be used, by applying what he refers to as "these old socialist ideas in a high tech way". I'm fine with ideas that are practical & efficient ideas that some like to describe as socialist, such as the state owning and operating the highway system. PJ's probably essentially referring to the type of thing that has been used to describe TVP & TZM as communism with robots. The key words here are "with robots" or "in a high tech way", because that's not the same as getting things from someone somewhere exerting manual labor to produce it. If that's the best you can find, then my "theory" (as you put it) is in perfectly sound condition.

    Instead of trying to come to this forum to spread socialism, why not go to socialist forums to spread TZM awareness? I'm here on this message board discussing TZM stuff and posting Jacque Fresco clips all the time; what have you done on behalf of TZM?
    Oh C' mon Neil.....You spread much more than TZM awareness or discussing TZM stuff...doncha?

    Why not go to a Libertarian Forum and talk TZM? Maybe you already do?...I don't know.....but that's no cause to denigrate another poster who is simply pointing out some commonalities between TZM and The WSM....

    BTW; there's many aspects of socialism contained within TZM DEFINED....as those who have bothered to READ the BOOK....already know...

    Hey, I know...we should conduct a survey to see how many posters actually READ the book, then we'll all know who knows what they are talking about, no?

    What do you all think about that????
    Last edited by droneBEE; 1 Week Ago at 04:21 AM.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinout View Post
    It looks like a joke but I think you will find the system is geared for change when the people are ready to utilise it for their benefit. George Carlin describes it the best. Well sort of, he goes off on a tangent about not voting but I think its part of his routine. Basically garbage in garbage out is his message. Maybe if you were to sit down with him the conversation would be about electing representatives as opposed to politicians.

    No problem...I've been a fan of Carlins since before he grew his hair out and began smoking weed...and while I Love his comedy/philosophy to a point..... sitting down with him would not be likely as he's been dead for a few years already....

    PLEASE, oh Please...Neil...Name ONE elected Representative who is NOT a politician!!!

    Neil, its these kind of (d.a.) questions that convince me that you're not serious...but are just looking for an adversary....nothing more....

  5. #55
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    OK lets start again. And please stick to the topic, personal views are great and all but...

    Socialism defined by the World Socialist Movement


    This link is for those wanting to find out the definition of socialism and what being a socialist is about. In my view this is a credible source. I would also encourage discussion on which views are in line with TZM and which ones are not.


    What is Socialism? | World Socialist Movement
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  6. #56
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    This has some great dialog about the commonalities between both movements with this link, from the first post of the thread, describing some other observations about both movements.

    I get a sense that both movements have democracy and resources high on their agendas.
    Last edited by Spinout; 1 Week Ago at 10:12 PM.
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    I believe that first we need to make all work obsolete with the implementation of full automation. then we'll have socialism whether we want it or don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL9000 View Post
    I believe that first we need to make all work obsolete with the implementation of full automation. then we'll have socialism whether we want it or don't.
    We cannot make 'all work obsolete' unless and until we have automation in place AND more importantly as a first step IMO...a guaranteed Basic Income designed to equally SHARE the wealth with all the world's people....

    How close, or how far are we from this realization? Sometimes it seems very close....other times it seems impossible....
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    We cannot make 'all work obsolete' unless and until we have automation in place
    Its what i'm saying... lets first implement automation.
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinout View Post

    I get a sense that both movements have democracy and resources high on their agendas.
    I agree about resources but not so much about democracy. as i understand it the agenda of TZM is to do away with democracy.

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