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Thread: Socialism defined by the World Socialist Movement

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouTuber View Post
    > You might want to be careful what you do here on the forum.

    What you mean there is actually a real moderator on the forum and it hasn't just been left to rot because no one can be bothered to actually do any work moderating here, because I haven't seen anyone moderate a lot of very extreme posts here which would normally see countless folk banned immediately if the forum had an active moderation team. ( Unless.. we have a more sympathetic moderation team than we have ever had before.. But I think its more likely there is just no one at the helm of the ship as we drift in the ocean of the internet. Lets hope we don't hit an iceberg ! )


    > Bumping threads goes against the forum rules.

    One persons bumping is another person adding debate to a discussion. ( Really is a lame rule that as countless other forums don't have that, folk can just add comments whenever they want to a thread, even if its a decade old and on one throws a hissy fit, or tries to make an excuse that we should stop talking about subject because its uncomfortable.. )


    Next your be calling them a troll no doubt.

    "Quick ban them, they are disagreeing with me!"

    I guess until anyone bothers to admin this forum, anyone is free to post anything they like.

    Well, until the payment for running the server runs out and it just stops working one day. :-(

    Socialism Defined
    This link is for those wanting to find out the definition of socialism and what being a socialist is about. In my view this is a credible source. I would also encourage discussion on which views are in line with TZM and which ones are not.


    What is Socialism? | World Socialist Movement
    Last edited by Spinout; 1 Week Ago at 07:29 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    This is nothing more than an example of being purposely confrontational....ThanKs Neil!!! ...NOT....

    Socialism Defined

    This link is for those wanting to find out the definition of socialism and what being a socialist is about. In my view this is a credible source. I would also encourage discussion on which views are in line with TZM and which ones are not.


    What is Socialism? | World Socialist Movement
    Last edited by Spinout; 1 Week Ago at 07:30 PM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouTuber View Post
    > being purposely confrontational....

    One persons purposely confrontational is another's reasoned debate. :-)

    Can be hard to see the difference at times.


    One can hope that someone who has a tendency towards being purposely confrontational (Which I think we are all rather guilty of to varying degrees without not necessarily being aware of it.) may in time evolve to less confrontational, as such I would suggest to try more of giving the person the benefit of the doubt.


    Though having said that, I have seen folk who for decades have been thoroughly confrontational.... and have not changed !


    You also have to consider that someone may be acting as an abuser type personality, where they switch from nice to nasty and back again in an effort to keep someone in a relationship, rather than just nasty all the time.


    And another aspect to consider is 'mobbing':

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobbing

    Where people who might otherwise be perfectly nice in their debating style, can be encouraged in a group setting to pick on the weakest.

    Some might even call that peer pressure.

    Something you can notice in moderators of forums for example, where power can go to their heads and they can become quite nasty individuals, but as soon as they lose their moderators power, can become a normal nice person again !

    I dare say the same thing happens to politicians, CEO's and managers..

    Or even heads of households. :-)


    As such, I urge that we try and stick to:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication

    And that is something we all have to think about, as it can be so easy to fall into bad habits and behave less than ideal towards others when debating theories/solutions/etc.
    Socialism Defined

    This link is for those wanting to find out the definition of socialism and what being a socialist is about. In my view this is a credible source. I would also encourage discussion on which views are in line with TZM and which ones are not.


    What is Socialism? | World Socialist Movement
    Last edited by Spinout; 1 Week Ago at 07:30 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinout View Post
    Socialism Defined

    This link is for those wanting to find out the definition of socialism and what being a socialist is about. In my view this is a credible source. I would also encourage discussion on which views are in line with TZM and which ones are not.


    What is Socialism? | World Socialist Movement
    So the socialists are the trolls now?


    one link is enough bro. i agree with what's written there but its only words, a theory... when tested in the real world does it work???
    Neil and droneBEE like this.

  5. #15
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    > one link is enough bro.

    I imagine unintentional, probably experimenting with the forum features and finding it doesn't do what you think it will do !


    Wouldn't it be nice if forums came with video help tutorials to show you how to use each feature and what it does. :-)
    Neil likes this.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL9000 View Post
    So the socialists are the trolls now?


    one link is enough bro. i agree with what's written there but its only words, a theory... when tested in the real world does it work???
    If you read what is before the link it may give you a clue as to why I have to repeat myself. I'm not getting into discussions defending such things as "So the socialists are the trolls now?", its pointless and immature!!

    You have however acknowledged that you have looked at the site and agree with the theory but how does it compare to TZM's theory. And yes when tested how would it work in the real world?

    One line of thought that they take which I think lacks in TZM literature is their focus on democracy. Democracy should be the fundamental point of focus for creating any kind of change in the world because it is the majority of the people who will create the change, not the policy of government. The policy in government is implemented by the persons who represent communities (people). If the majority of persons in government represent communities that want a social or economic system change, it will happen.

    The focus of educating people in TZM does not really link to the mechanism of democracy or more to the point voting because this is seen as political. However I can see no other avenue for getting people to see if any of this theory will work (socialism or TZM's theories) except by forcing it on to them. And once this is done it contradicts the theory, therefore it no longer holds true (this is what has happened with socialism since it was theorised by Marx some 175yrs ago) Basically the majority of people would have to see the logic in a RBE or socialist community to be able to support it. And this will take time and some good planning and leadership.


    I think YouTuber touches on this very point here Donald Trump is against the Alt-Right cult
    Last edited by Spinout; 1 Week Ago at 07:19 PM. Reason: Adding and subtracting content

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouTuber View Post
    > one link is enough bro.

    I imagine unintentional, probably experimenting with the forum features and finding it doesn't do what you think it will do !


    Wouldn't it be nice if forums came with video help tutorials to show you how to use each feature and what it does. :-)

    Socialism Defined

    This link is for those wanting to find out the definition of socialism and what being a socialist is about. In my view this is a credible source. I would also encourage discussion on which views are in line with TZM and which ones are not.


    What is Socialism? | World Socialist Movement

  8. #18
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    It looks like to me that they would be relying on people to behave in a most Democratic way possible I guess it will depend on the Educational System of this type of Economy. If it doesn't implant in them the Importance of Science, Reason, Natural Law etc... then it might not have the best population to be making these crucial decisions that will affect the Sustainability of this System. Where I think a NLRBE differs is that these decisions would be done Directly with Scientific/Logical approaches reducing the need for people to make these decisions themselves. I don't have too much confidence that people can make the best decisions so I'm happy to let other more well-informed arrangements assist us in making the most beneficial decisions possible.

    Another difference between the two looks like the process of how we produce these wants/needs. I'm not sure how much Technology/Automation would be working in this System but it does seem like they would still want to keep many jobs. How many? Which ones? How much work? While I think a NLRBE would be trying to replace as many jobs as possible with Technology/Automation. So it seems to me that we have differing degrees of jobs done by People between the two ?
    droneBEE and HAL9000 like this.

  9. #19
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    If we purposely limit either the amount or the source's of the information we use to form our opinions we should never be surprised or confused when those opinions meet with some resistance or challenge from other's who may have unexplored avenues for us to consider....

    "We don't know what we don't know until we do know"

    Count it as a human curse (or blessing), because we are all susceptible to it as long as we 'selectively limit our intake' of information to what 'feels' right today.....

    However, as a species designed for consciousness expansion, we simply must be willing to gather more data and not remain stuck in someone else's trap of ideological complacency, hopelessness, divisiveness, acceptance of the 'way things are' and eventually despair...which too often manifests and expresses itself as irrational Hate these days....

    IMHO; Our 'self-inflated' Ego's is what most often gets in the way of this kind of self exploration....

    Everyone wants to be Right....No one wants to be Wrong
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL9000 View Post
    So the socialists are the trolls now?


    one link is enough bro. i agree with what's written there but its only words, a theory... when tested in the real world does it work???

    The only 'pure' examples of socialism that I'm aware of, are small groups of people presenting their 'way of living' long before someone coined the term socialism, including several Native American Tribes, along with a number of Indigenous people around the World.....all of which came to an eventual end when Men, conditioned over the centuries to be subservient to their KINGS/LANDLORDS, and from other parts of the globe, took great advantage of the people who lacked any comprehension of such concepts as Land Ownership, thus were easy prey from those self-entitled KINGS/LANDLORDS with Armies...

    For those who believe that in today's world, Land no longer has any value, as described by Henry George over 100 years ago, they should ask this question until they receive a satisfactory and logical answer;

    WHY is over 90% of the world 'owned or controlled' by less than 5% of the people? Why not turn these holdings over to people who could make productive use of these vast amounts of LAND, land hoarded solely for speculation and profit....?

    BTW; I've been reading the opinions of religious scholars for many years....and many folks might be surprised (or not) to find out that Jesus has often been described as the 'First Socialist' for perhaps as long ago as whomever first created the word....

    Some claim that the ideology 'may' have been developed with the 'teachings of Jesus' in mind.....Perhaps????
    Ernest and HAL9000 like this.

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