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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SophicDrippins View Post
    Allow me to clarify what you said just in case there happens to be a newbie floating by:

    Stigmatizing those with opposing views & vilifying evidence as propaganda is sometimes needed if we're going to be able to win an intellectual debate with the use of force because we already know we're right and debate is a waste of time in lieu of such wonderful tools as censorship (aka violence) and any manner of underhandedness that is justified by the end.
    Interesting view into the mind of ones perspective of themselves & the World. It's fascinating to see how people interact with their surroundings and how they view themselves in it. How some people need to be heard & acknowledge so much while others prefer to just be part of something that's coherent to them. I believe a good life to have is the Self-Examined one. And putting ourselves in the proper place where we can examine & discern our surroundings to better make the more reasonable decisions about who we are & where we stand at Every level & position in this Life we have. Takes a lot of practice but I think we can get there.

    Also I just wanted to talk about something here. If you were part of a Community and you held certain views that some might consider Disrespectful & Offensive, would you feel offended if they disagreed with you about how you expressed them? And if you would be, why would it bother you so much that a significant portion of the Community wouldn't feel like giving to much time & effort on certain views that they feel offer no productive ends. If they see it as just Combative behavior, why would you not support them in their dissension? Kind of like Agree to Disagree..

    Why would you instead go off on various tangents about how they are so 'Hateful & Oppressive just because they pointed out some of your views that were Irritating to hear? They are basically saying to you to show some respect & civility in the Community but instead you see it like they were coming for you with the pitch forks. Do you honor the ethical standards in the Community or do you try to enforce a new way of doing things that Everyone should just accept irrespective of what Community standards have already been in place and generally followed by Most in the Community? Is it no wonder why such display of opposing views would cause such discomfort within the Community then ..

    This hypothetical Thought Experiment might help in our understanding of what goes on in these type of scenarios.
    HAL9000 and droneBEE like this.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouTuber View Post
    > start bickering amongst yourselves and banning each other until there is no one left.

    That reminds me of the FNF, where that exact thing happened.

    There was one person left, and they closed the organisation / website down.

    No one remember the FNF then..

    Some URL's to remind you:

    The Pirate Bay abandons plans for a sovereign nation

    Free Nation Foundation | What's new, new media? | Fandom powered by Wikia

    Free Nation Foundation trying to found copyright-free nation / Boing Boing

    Some comments by folk on it, and other related organisations:

    Page 2 - Hello, I'm Dr. Matt - Forum - Skeptic Project

    A lesson from history, lets hope we don't repeat it here..


    ....Alas....repeating history is one thing humans do pretty well...

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    I suppose we could say that TZM is for egregious Adults with above average intelligence and longer attention spans ....and that its too bad we sometimes allow the kids to wreck the place with their childish nonsense from time to time.....simply in the interest of keeping an open forum...OPEN....

    Its kinda like that old 'freedom isn't free' slogan, no? If one truly desires freedom one must also be willing to tolerate others, regardless of how rude, dumb or divisive we may think they and their opines are....
    The biggest favor you can do for Molyneux, Trump, capitalists and conservatives is for you and the rest of the clan to stay exactly as you are.

    Molyneux is up to 574,096 subs. About 4500 more than my last report.

    Keep being insensitive, condescending, confrontational and I'll continue deriving joy from watching you lose.

    serenesam likes this.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
    Interesting view into the mind of ones perspective of themselves & the World. It's fascinating to see how people interact with their surroundings and how they view themselves in it. How some people need to be heard & acknowledge so much while others prefer to just be part of something that's coherent to them. I believe a good life to have is the Self-Examined one. And putting ourselves in the proper place where we can examine & discern our surroundings to better make the more reasonable decisions about who we are & where we stand at Every level & position in this Life we have. Takes a lot of practice but I think we can get there.
    Introspection is good.

    If you were part of a Community and you held certain views that some might consider Disrespectful & Offensive, would you feel offended if they disagreed with you about how you expressed them?
    "How" I expressed them?

    And if you would be, why would it bother you so much that a significant portion of the Community wouldn't feel like giving to much time & effort on certain views that they feel offer no productive ends.
    Oh I see what this is about. The problem is TZM members are presuming TZM is infallible; therefore, there are no valid objections.

    Think of it like this: Suppose you want to invest a sizable fortune into an investment idea. Wouldn't you want to know for sure there is not an error of reasoning in the idea? If TZM could only end in catastrophic failure, wouldn't you want to know about that ahead of time? Shouldn't you seek all criticism possible?

    Instead, what I see are constant "TZM is not an open forum, but only for supporters." And "Where are the mods? We have racists on the loose!"

    If they see it as just Combative behavior, why would you not support them in their dissension? Kind of like Agree to Disagree..
    Combative behavior? They're displaying symptoms of psychosis by claiming I am here for the purpose of disruption. I'm just a guy who is trying to figure things out for himself and somehow I'm accused me of working for someone. That sort of conspiratorial thinking is a warning sign of psychosis.

    Fsir said:

    "But serenesam is the worst. There are countless posts of his with pure far right propaganda videos with little to no discussion. And I notice, they make sure the "Rise of the Alt-Right" thread is always at the top."

    Now, I don't know serenesam from bigfoot, but I'm willing to bet he wasn't concerned with keeping the alt-right thread at the top and can certainly say that I had no intention nor was even aware where it was on the list.

    For a while, there were those who thought serenesam and I were allies with a common goal.

    Why would you instead go off on various tangents about how they are so 'Hateful & Oppressive just because they pointed out some of your views that were Irritating to hear?
    If my views are irritating to read, then don't look. Use the ignore button that Drone threatened me with oodles of times. There is no need to ban me unless you're worried I may be making some sense to people. And if you're worried about that, then you must believe I'm speaking truth and if you believe that, then why are you supporting a lie? Or maybe you're worried that people are too stupid to decide for themselves whether I speak truth or lie, so I should be banned to cater to the stupid people. Ok, then why are you wanting to build an innovative society with a core of stupid people who believe what you tell them?

    Then is no good reason to metaphorically shoot me in the head.

    They are basically saying to you to show some respect & civility in the Community but instead you see it like they were coming for you with the pitch forks.
    Well, they are.

    Do you honor the ethical standards in the Community or do you try to enforce a new way of doing things that Everyone should just accept irrespective of what Community standards have already been in place and generally followed by Most in the Community?
    That would be like the western world respecting Sharia law because it had been in place for a long time and followed by many. Just because something is traditional, doesn't mean it's right.
    serenesam likes this.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SophicDrippins View Post

    Fsir said:

    "But serenesam is the worst. There are countless posts of his with pure far right propaganda videos with little to no discussion. And I notice, they make sure the "Rise of the Alt-Right" thread is always at the top."
    I'm curious, how do you know it is fsir is anglesphere from reddit?

    Now, I don't know serenesam from bigfoot, but I'm willing to bet he wasn't concerned with keeping the alt-right thread at the top and can certainly say that I had no intention nor was even aware where it was on the list.

    For a while, there were those who thought serenesam and I were allies with a common goal.
    Well, I must say, as someone who believes in fact, I do think a lot of things The Alt-Right has to say is valid. SophicDrippins, I'm curious as to what you believe in because you said the following:

    "Keep being insensitive, condescending, confrontational and I'll continue deriving joy from watching you lose."

    Are you a right-winger, left-winger, independent, something else?

    While I myself may test as Left-Libertarian, I don't even know if I could consider myself even that. I truly do believe I'm an "Independent" and so maybe there's no word or label to describe me. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you believe nobody should starve right?

    I do share values with people on the Right with regard to how the government has destroyed the nuclear family, how feminism has made women unhappy, and really, I know it almost sounds crazy but I do think a lot of what The Alt-Right says is true because I can't simply just deny what is so obvious in front of my eyes. I believe in voluntary association and the nonaggression principle in libertarianism so really, I don't know what I am. I don't know if I would be considered to be a friend or enemy of TZM or The Alt-Right.........I guess I'm just my own person......

    If my views are irritating to read, then don't look. Use the ignore button that Drone threatened me with oodles of times. There is no need to ban me unless you're worried I may be making some sense to people. And if you're worried about that, then you must believe I'm speaking truth and if you believe that, then why are you supporting a lie? Or maybe you're worried that people are too stupid to decide for themselves whether I speak truth or lie, so I should be banned to cater to the stupid people. Ok, then why are you wanting to build an innovative society with a core of stupid people who believe what you tell them?
    Good point. Stupid people might not move society and/or humanity forward as it would only contribute to dysgenics and degeneracy. Smart people and eugenics is a necessity. The following video helps people understand why eugenics is misunderstood:



    By the way, thanks for being here SophicDrippins, you add a lot insight into my thinking and keep me questioning things. I know that by saying that, some people might think you and I are part of some kind of conspiracy but really, I like to accept facts and reality and it's almost inevitable that we may appear to be alike simply because we both accept the same facts and reality. So where do you think you and I differ?
    YouTuber likes this.
    "Change is almost always negative. Things degenerate." - Woody Allen

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SophicDrippins View Post
    The biggest favor you can do for Molyneux, Trump, capitalists and conservatives is for you and the rest of the clan to stay exactly as you are.

    Molyneux is up to 574,096 subs. About 4500 more than my last report.

    Keep being insensitive, condescending, confrontational and I'll continue deriving joy from watching you lose.

    Is the above video really all that surprising? Not really. Quite deterministic in nature, I think.
    "Change is almost always negative. Things degenerate." - Woody Allen

  7. #57
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    > I don't know if I would be considered to be a friend or enemy of TZM

    I think most of us here are friends, often with different understanding and / or knowledge about how the world works and are trying to educate each other about what we have found out.

    Kinda like a huge brainstorming session, where we thrash out what we consider the best solution to our particular problems, by all contributing what we can.

    As such, it is vital that we all try and tear down each others theories on how the world works, so we can be pretty sure those that stand the test of time and battering, are more likely to be right than those that fall apart easily at the first push.

    But we do have to base our solutions on the real world, and what works there, than too much theory on how we think things might work.

    At the very least, we need to test out new theories. :-)

    Though from what I've seen, there are plenty of good old fashioned theories to work with, we just have to decide where our priorities are and what to focus on first.

    But as we appear unable as a group to agree on anything much in the way of a group effort, the best that can be hoped for at this time appears to helping each other as much as possible with our own niche efforts to move the world to a better place.

    As such, the sharing of key knowledge bases on how the world actually works on a nuts & bolts level I consider very useful in helping us to figure out what direction we might find useful to focus ourselves on.

    Over the years this has helped me hugely change focus myself to areas where I think I can achieve the most bangs per buck for my effort, so as such I find most of what folk post to be helpful in one manner or another.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by serenesam View Post
    I'm curious, how do you know it is fsir is anglesphere from reddit?
    Intuition

    But you had me worried for a second, so I found conclusive proof:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/CapitalismV...esource_model/

    [Reply to Capitalists] Competitive Resource Management & Crime (unfortunately long)

    I would like to point out that I have no ill will towards Fsir, but just that I dislike his views on censorship. I think the work he's done is fantastic (even though I don't agree 100%). I've reached out a couple times, but I think he was telling the truth here:

    Quote Originally Posted by fsir View Post
    Oh boo hoo, they can't be my friend. Man up.

    "Seems to me you're saying they should be killed and gotten rid of. If they couldn't possibly be your friend, then they are worthless."

    If they're truly reformed, great. But don't you have people who are not your friend that you're just incompatible with?

    It's not hate. It's incompatibility as a friend.
    I still think it's hate. It goes back to what you (serenesam) said before, that one's capacity to hate stems from their capacity to love. If you love something, you must hate the thing that threatens what you love.

    Anyway, I'm totally for wiping the slate clean and starting over with Fsir (or anyone else), but I'm terrified of opening the can of worms by posting an objection to his competitive resource model thread. At the moment, I'm cozy with the realization that competition compensates for morality, er, lack of morality among people. My prime objection to TZM is that people are not moral enough for a social society. Since I'm comfortable with that belief, posting in his thread wouldn't be for my enlightenment, even if I thought he'd acknowledge me.

    Well, I must say, as someone who believes in fact, I do think a lot of things The Alt-Right has to say is valid.
    I know you do, but it wasn't your mission to keep the thread on top, was it?

    SophicDrippins, I'm curious as to what you believe in because you said the following:

    "Keep being insensitive, condescending, confrontational and I'll continue deriving joy from watching you lose."

    Are you a right-winger, left-winger, independent, something else?
    I honestly don't know. I'm not a group-person. I guess I'm the Bruce Lee of politics... take what works from each style, but don't be pinned-down by boundaries.

    All generalizations are false, including this one.
    All things in moderation, including moderation.

    There seems to be a bit of truth to everything, but there are no rules that always work.

    While I myself may test as Left-Libertarian, I don't even know if I could consider myself even that. I truly do believe I'm an "Independent" and so maybe there's no word or label to describe me. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you believe nobody should starve right?
    I don't see how it's moral to allow starvation, unless the thing that is starving is the thing that is infectious. Parasites and pathogenic organisms can starve and I'll sleep like a baby. So since I've allowed for the starvation of some organisms, where do I draw the line? Not sure I want to open that can of worms either.

    I do share values with people on the Right with regard to how the government has destroyed the nuclear family, how feminism has made women unhappy, and really, I know it almost sounds crazy but I do think a lot of what The Alt-Right says is true because I can't simply just deny what is so obvious in front of my eyes. I believe in voluntary association and the nonaggression principle in libertarianism so really, I don't know what I am. I don't know if I would be considered to be a friend or enemy of TZM or The Alt-Right.........I guess I'm just my own person......
    I definitely support you on standing alone.

    I've always loved this song, even since I was a kid and before I understood the lyrics:



    There are times when all the world's asleep,
    The questions run too deep
    For such a simple man.
    Won't you please, please tell me what we've learned
    I know it sounds absurd
    But please tell me who I am.


    We are stardust. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKdsRWhyH30

    Well, then can I walk beside you? I have come to lose the smog.
    And I feel myself a cog in something turning.
    And maybe it's the time of the year, yes and maybe it's the time of man.
    And I don't know who I am but life is for learning.
    We are stardust, we are golden, we are billion year old carbon,
    And we got to get ourselves back to the garden.


    On and on it goes... generation after generation we try to identify with something.

    Good point. Stupid people might not move society and/or humanity forward as it would only contribute to dysgenics and degeneracy. Smart people and eugenics is a necessity. The following video helps people understand why eugenics is misunderstood:
    My worries are greater than genetics. Stupid people congregate in groups and wield power over intelligent individuals. That goes back to my arguing with drone about whether pack animals and flocks are smarter than loners. I mean, you can't have a witch hunt unless there is a pack and a loner. "Witch" comes from Wicca which is merely a wise, solitary person. So a witch hunt is in essence a group of dummies murdering the wise.

    I was impressed by a lot of what Edward G Griffin had to say about collectivism, so I went to his website https://www.freedomforceinternationa...congress-2016/ and found "join us... to replace collectivists with individualists as leaders of the power centers of society." Sigh... yet another group. This is why I lose faith in humanity.

    By the way, thanks for being here SophicDrippins, you add a lot insight into my thinking and keep me questioning things.
    I thank you for being here too and you have definitely affected my thinking.

    I know that by saying that, some people might think you and I are part of some kind of conspiracy but really, I like to accept facts and reality and it's almost inevitable that we may appear to be alike simply because we both accept the same facts and reality.
    Yup, we're just a couple guys coincidentally huddled around the same fire.

    So where do you think you and I differ?
    Just on the freewill thing, but that doesn't matter. If I could influence you at all, I'd recommend escaping your comfort zone and exploring some videos diametric to what you believe. You seem to have gotten unilateral and more sure of your beliefs and that could be a warning sign that you're boxed in a paradigm (too much J and not enough P in your diet )

    One thing I didn't tell you before, with now seems relevant: CEOs have equal parts of the attributes in the HBDI test and are "well-rounded" squares.


  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouTuber View Post
    But as we appear unable as a group to agree on anything much in the way of a group effort, the best that can be hoped for at this time appears to helping each other as much as possible with our own niche efforts to move the world to a better place.
    Well said! And I think we should strive to hold each other together in spite of our differences. I've learned in life that no 2 people will agree on everything, so we have to learn how to get long in spite of being different. This is where I think individuality comes into play.... if you and I were from different planets, we wouldn't fault each other for seeing the world differently. For some reason we feel judgemental of those of our own species, but strive to understand the motives of other species.

    If we are the same and you see something differently, then I may feel you have to be wrong because I wouldn't come to the same conclusion about my own life. However, if we are different, then I can just say that we came to different conclusions because we are different and it wouldn't threaten me. Does that make sense?

    Cats and Cows don't argue about meat vs veggies for dinner.

    I'm starting to think fences actually bring people closer together and egalitarianism is divisive.

    So rather than pursue tribalism, we start with the idea that everyone will think differently and be able to respect them for it. Rather than form echo-chambers and safe spaces, we expect that everyone will be different. No army of moderators needed because there is nothing to conform to. Maybe that's too idealistic. I don't know, I'll have to think about it. I just know there has to be a mechanism for everyone to get along or no movement will move.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by SophicDrippins View Post
    Oh I see what this is about. The problem is TZM members are presuming TZM is infallible; therefore, there are no valid objections.
    uummmm ... ... did you forget this ?

    "This hypothetical Thought Experiment might help in our understanding of what goes on in these type of scenarios."

    I was trying to provide a Hypothetical example to think over to hopefully help us get a better understating of what is involved & happening in these type of situations. Kind of like looking at it from the outside.

    But apparently you weren't able to separate this from the Real thing?

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