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Thread: Story of The Free Market - Flawed

  1. #31
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    Big Storm came through and the power went out (our solar/batteries only supply essentials when grid line goes down), right in the middle of writing some anecdotal evidence related to frequency of stings some Beekeepers receive that has been garnered after playing with bees since the 70's...back in the 'glory' years......before varroa and SHB....before the endless 'misunderstood/mis-regulated chemical applications to the very food sources bees consume, before we began treating honeybees like cattle...

    I'll have to get back to ya with my personal observations.....its time to clean up the farm while the rain has stopped....for now....

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    It's the only reason I see for complaining about a free market. Why complain, then, if it isn't about envy? We don't exactly have a free market; if people are complaining about what we have now, then perhaps what they're really complaining about is that we don't have a sufficiently free market.
    So what we're really talking about here is Behavior. How will people comport themselves in an Economy that no longer has any type of meddling from any Government institution? The Free Market now ultimately free to have people compete however they see fit. Going back to Human Behavior, does a Free Market all of sudden change the way people view things? Does it bring on a new wave of Values & Principles to the World? Are people now more inclined to behave Ethically/Altruistically?

    Now just because we are truly living in a Free Market System where the State no longer has any control over it, we all of sudden expect that people and their behavior will change because we will now be 'kept in line' by what the Free Market dictates as the most fairest & best outcomes possible for all people? If that is the case, then how does a Free Market decide what is considered fair & best? The answer .... it Can't because it's not an existing thing on its own. It's we the People who decide to give it "life" and comport in this way. You see people conflate this issue with being something that is naturally a 'living' thing in itself. Therefore it can go on deciding for us what is fair & just, what is right & wrong. But it can't & never will because it's going from the nonliving to the living. It's attempting to determine what is the best way to live as a Society but hasn't been established on any type of Scientific/Logic based input. It has basically just come out from a possible Idea that eventually became a school of thought because there was enough people who believed in it and never questioned its validity & effectiveness.

    The Free Market exist only because we exist. We are the only ones who can determine what is Fair but we need to base this on something that is Real. Something that shows us & proves this in our actual daily lives. A Free Market won't provide these details because it wants to reduce everything to a simplification. It wants everything to be in black and white but ignore all the gray area. It's an idea that wasn't heavily thought out because at the time, a lot things weren't taken into consideration or couldn't be known yet. But know we can see through a lot more and understand how in theory, the Free Market can look good on paper in small individual examples but on a grand scale with huge numbers of people all vying to get ahead in their own lives with all its Complexities involved, it quickly becomes one giant ball of destructive Mess because again the World is not so easily predicted.

    We can't rely on a way of doing things to give us all the most beneficial answers. We need things like Science & Reason to provide us with the most relevant information possible so then we can comport ourselves in ways that truly are good for Everyone. Because at the end of the day, that's what its really all about. Our Behavior and how we decide to function as a Society. So we really need to think things through this time and ask ourselves what type of Behavior to teach and promote in Society because that's what's going to perpetuate throughout it. And how the Economy goes, the people will follow. The Free Market Economy Behavior is the same as what we have Today in Capitalism. So people will do what they see fit for themselves to get ahead in Life. That isn't going away because the Same Behavior will still be around to propagate.

    Simply removing the State's interference in the Economy but leaving the same Behavioral patterns in place because it benefits the Free Market to do so and also expecting that this will not carry over to all of the people involved when this type of System is not sincerely based on the Well-Being of Society but on the individual actors alone? Then this isn't doing anything to Significantly change the way Human Beings will Behave that's different from what we do today because what you're still getting is the carry over of the Same Individual, Actors, Behaviors, Ideas, Beliefs, Values, Priorities, Aims, Designs, Economics, Environments etc. etc..
    droneBEE likes this.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    One can be 'envious' if one has no home, no food, and can see inside the homes of others who do.....that form of Envy is NOT the same as Greed or selfishness ....only in so far as it 'fits' your own world view (I still think you need to get out more )
    precisely!

    people want to be able to live a decent life. I'm not talking about people wanting exactly everything the other person has or even their life. so if using Envy in this way Neil, doesn't it have a sort of Strawman, Red Herring, ad Hominem feel to it?
    droneBEE likes this.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
    precisely!

    people want to be able to live a decent life. I'm not talking about people wanting exactly everything the other person has or even their life. so if using Envy in this way Neil, doesn't it have a sort of Strawman, Red Herring, ad Hominem feel to it?
    The differences between GREED and envy? This is perhaps a very difficult concept to embrace or to understand, especially for those who've never lived a single day without their 'needs' being met (never been homeless, hungry or hopeless)...and then select to spend enormous amounts of time obsessing over the 'wants' they don't have and/or expressing their dissatisfaction in inappropriate and counterproductive (hateful) ways....:roll eyes:

    Humans....we can be awfully silly at times.....

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