Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 28
Like Tree29Likes

Thread: the next Minsky Moment...

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northwest Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,978

    the next Minsky Moment...

    I was uncertain where to post this, either Here or the 'Human Condition' section, so I posted in both since the two are so closely related, despite the so-called 'experts' insistence to the contrary.... What do they really know anyway?

    Minsky once said that 100% of the majority of Economics Classes are Fantasy, yet he also said that we were 'doomed to repeat the same mistakes' over and over due to forces/instincts/behaviors developed within our species some 30 million years ago....

    That was also confirmed in the excellent 2015 Documentary Film, "BOOM, Bust BOOM" (I caught it on netflix and have been encouraging its viewing ever since)....Find it and watch it my friends....if you haven't already done so....

    Anyhow, since Economics is so often misunderstood (on purpose) I thought it might be helpful to shed some light on WHY we keep doing this to ourselves and maybe discuss some possible solutions????....because unless and until we understand the WHY....we can never create the kinds of changes desired by most of those coming around this place......


    Review: Another ?Minsky moment? may be on the way
    Ernest and HAL9000 like this.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    693
    Per the article, "Minsky held that this network becomes more fragile over time as people take on increasing amounts of risk."

    That is very true!

    2008 was:

    - competition between ratings agencies rewarded those who could be the most unethical with their ratings (more risky).
    - mortgage agencies we're compelled to loan anybody money (risky) given that wallstreet would buy any bond labeled as "safe".
    - times were good and people decided to take on more debt with the assumption times would always be good (risk).

    There was no single cause to the 2008 crisis except that of generally too much risk.

    When times are good, people will take on too much.
    When times are bad, people will be scared to move.

    Fear and Greed rules the economy.
    Ernest likes this.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    749
    Fear, Greed, Risk ..... what's the Cause

    Competition as a consequence of Scarcity ?

    We criticize, condemn people for behaving this way but yet we Ignore the conditions in place that might bring about this behavior

    So all I hear all day on the News is people Blaming others for their actions and that if they only begin to Change their behaviors, our Economy & people's Lives would Greatly improve ? ? ?

    This and how the Mainstream Never talks about how Capitalism's Fundamental Principles might have something to do with these problems just leaves me Flabbergasted. Expecting & hoping that people are going to change their behavior under the Same conditions we Continue to structure ourselves does Not exist.

    We have too much Faith in this belief and I don't think it will subside until we begin to talk about & Change they way we structure ourselves in this way.
    droneBEE likes this.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northwest Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,978
    Quote Originally Posted by SophicDrippins View Post
    Per the article, "Minsky held that this network becomes more fragile over time as people take on increasing amounts of risk."

    That is very true!

    2008 was:

    - competition between ratings agencies rewarded those who could be the most unethical with their ratings (more risky).
    - mortgage agencies we're compelled to loan anybody money (risky) given that wallstreet would buy any bond labeled as "safe".
    - times were good and people decided to take on more debt with the assumption times would always be good (risk).

    There was no single cause to the 2008 crisis except that of generally too much risk.

    When times are good, people will take on too much.
    When times are bad, people will be scared to move.

    Fear and Greed rules the economy.


    You and apparent;y the majority forgot about the DEBT....its the debt that creates the RISK....

    Did anyone notice that this has been going on for a very long time..(since the beginning IMO).....that 'we' never seem to learn from the 'same' mistakes made.....always repeating them....while reaching for something new and shiny that doesn't exist accept in our minds..

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    693
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
    Competition as a consequence of Scarcity ?
    It's tough to see what scarcity motivates successful men to steal from grandmas.



    More likely they are willing to throw grandma under the bus to gain resources to impress the ladies, not because they are starving.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by SophicDrippins View Post
    It's tough to see what scarcity motivates successful men to steal from grandmas.
    Maybe not Economic Scarcity per se but most definitely Scarcity of some other. I mean that could mean a Scarcity of Confidence, Love, Empathy, Good Judgement, Happiness and so on.

    When I talk about Scarcity in people's lives. I'm talking about all the things we Need that make us Complete & Whole. And for that, Money/Wealth is just a small part of it.
    droneBEE likes this.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    693
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
    Maybe not Economic Scarcity per se but most definitely Scarcity of some other. I mean that could mean a Scarcity of Confidence, Love, Empathy, Good Judgement, Happiness and so on.

    When I talk about Scarcity in people's lives. I'm talking about all the things we Need that make us Complete & Whole. And for that, Money/Wealth is just a small part of it.
    You don't see greed being instinct? What reasoning led you to that conclusion with such certainty?

    I have a heck of a time overcoming greed. I try to remind myself, "The Angels' Share", but never remember.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northwest Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,978
    Quote Originally Posted by SophicDrippins View Post
    You don't see greed being instinct? What reasoning led you to that conclusion with such certainty?

    I have a heck of a time overcoming greed. I try to remind myself, "The Angels' Share", but never remember.

    No, I don't see GREED as instinctual....I see it as Learned behavior........We are Greedy because we've been trained/conditioned/taught that consumption is good ....As we've become more 'individualized' we also feel 'entitled' to self enrich....

    That amassing vast amounts of wealth is Good, regardless of who or what may directly suffer......Greed creates lack of empathy....just a theory I'm working on....

    If we humans are anything we may be 'Natural Hoarders', collectors of things (trinkets, food etc..)......and that natural instinct to hoard was/is purposely manipulated to enrich those even more GREEDY than you or me.....

    So, Consume away my friends......Once we've eaten the Earth of everything of value, leaving behind all our our Sh1T, maybe we'll finally get this Transition moving forward.....
    Phil and Ernest like this.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    east coast
    Posts
    406
    Did Minsky mean literally 30 million years ago? Because our species is only 250 thousand years old.

    Did he mean primates?
    "The stress of nature never ends, but at a certain level still other driving forces originate which put the whip to the creative power of man with a multiplied force... The new relations are detected first by a few (with the finest moral tentacles), afterwards by more, then they are consolidated in rules which begin to push aside the earlier moral code and in the end eliminate it."

    "They who decry the loss of masculinity the loudest, are certain of it in themselves the least."

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northwest Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,978
    Quote Originally Posted by fsir View Post
    Did Minsky mean literally 30 million years ago? Because our species is only 250 thousand years old.

    Did he mean primates?
    Yes...of course, and before that perhaps....watch the video for more details...

    Some of our current behaviors can be traced back millions of years....

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
web statistics
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1