Post By fsir
Post By Izon
Post By fsir
Post By Izon
Post By droneBEE
The current government is too controlling as it is, command economy would be tyrannic
The current government is too controlling as it is, command economy would be tyrannical
Libertarians just love to talk about the tyranny of big government, including many current Western governments in the mix. It's also ironic that such tyrannical government would tolerate such daily verbal abuse from both the Right wing and Left. Do you think if you worked for Trump or any private business owner you could openly call them and their business practices tyrannical and get away with it? You don't think you'd be fired and told to get out?
And yet Libertarians and free market capitalists heap truckloads of criticism on this alleged "tyrannical" government and nobody has asked them to leave, nobody has knocked on their door, nobody has called them into their office. All things that would most probably happen if they decided to refer to any of their employers throughout their lifetime as "tyrannical".
And these same Libertarians typically forget that, unlike an employer, under most western governments, they can vote for their government representatives, who also, unlike their employers, will use the powers of government to send aid to them if their access to resources is threatened.
And they also forget, that like they can with an employer, they can also vote with their feet. If you don't like the form of government you're living under in most western nations as well as many others, you're perfectly free to leave and renounce your citizenship.
Now, it may be inconvenient for you to leave your country ---just like it's inconvenient for many who want to practice a moneyless economy culture--- but you're not prohibited. You can still do it. So it's good to understand when an inconvenience is not an argument for the "restriction of freedom."
Many Libertarians erroneously mistake inconvenience for the tyrannical restriction of their freedom. All the while talking out of both sides of their mouths to RBE advocates. In other words, declaring RBE advocates are free to practice a RBE while pretending the government is restricting their freedoms as Libertarians.
If RBE advocates are free to practice a RBE, then, as Libertarians, you must concede that, under these western so-called "tyrannical" governments, you are perfectly free to leave and practice anarco-capitalism somewhere else.
If an employer who says to you "my way or the highway" is not tyrannical, then neither is a government, which if it is a democratic one, paradoxically and typically doesn't confront their citizens with such ultimatums.
So don't tell me democratic governments are still being tyrannical while you still have the right to vote, still have the right to speak and criticize and still have the freedom to leave.
You can't criticize your employer like you can criticize your government and still assume you'll be allowed to stay.
You Libertarians open your mouths against democratic governments in a manner and degree you would never dare dream of directing at your employer lest you be forcibly removed from the workplace.
You can't even speak your mind to an employer to the degree you direct comments at government without losing your job because you are bought and paid for.
Yet you can (and do) shoot off your mouth all day long about this "tyrannical" government without the fear of being escorted out.
The standard answer of Libertarians to people who don't like their employer is "Leave".
And that's my answer to them: If you don't like the government you're living under, "Leave".
It's called "Leaving". Imagine that! You can leave a democratic country!
It may be inconvenient but nobody is stopping you.
Last edited by fsir; 04-25-2016 at 12:06 PM.
Very Well Said.
The difference between government and corporate power structures.
Government power structures are democratic and public. - only does what it is allowed to do (ideally speaking).
corporate power structures are private and tyrannical. - does whatever it wants if there is no one to stop them.
We have to strive for the best option, and if freedom is your objective then government is the best way to structure society through organized control.
Organized control simply implies systematic freedom.
libertarians who aren't ignorant as in they are educated in how both systems function yet choose libertarianism as their method of freedom, such people are mentally (politically) retarded, I am not saying that to be derogatory I am making a clinical statement, we can use such a narrative to determine whether someone is politically retarded or not.
These people need a whole new batch of code in order to correct their broken operating systems.
How can someone be so foolish as to believe that being bought and paid for establishes you the ability to be free when everything in relation to your freedom is bought and paid for outside of the jurisdiction of your access.
libertarianism is paid for freedom, and therefore isn't free freedom and therefore isn't freedom at all.
libertarianism allows you to have the power to control the people and the world itself to the extent of how far your dollar and monopoly (capitalization) on resources and services will take you, not how far your will and the will of your fellow constituents desire to go.
In a word, libertarianism is stupid.
libertarianism is a form of systematic oppression.
The same applies to capitalism.
Anarchism is also prone to the same error in judgement, removing the access to resources and services on a global basis for personal control and therefore no one is free in the total sense, as no one has access to any resources or services beyond the jurisdiction of their own limited application of control, self-limiting is not freedom.
NLRBE is the only true system of economic freedom.
NLRBE limits people based upon natural law and order (NELO) thereby it is as justified as gravity, it is incontestable, a preconditioned factor that doesn't account for our freedom as it simply is our freedom.
Last edited by Izon; 04-25-2016 at 12:37 PM.
Exactly. You pay for all that material stuff by selling what? Your freedom. Your freedom of movement is controlled by someone else for the hours you are working for them.
Originally Posted by Izon
And there's people working who are still struggling. People who need banks and loans and credit to survive and yet who are working. I thought capitalism was supposed to be about paying for your material needs from your own work? Yet they decry public welfare but they say nothing about the welfare of bank loans, insurance companies and credit cards. Why are people dependent upon those private loan, insurance and credit card companies if capitalism works? Why can't they pay for things like housing and transportation outright themselves? Well, because something is not working and that therefore requires dependence on an external source.
Exactly if you are dependent on an external source you cannot be free, you have to cooperate with the force, in a NLRBE nature is that force and justifiably so.
Originally Posted by fsir
In capitalism, that force is the monetary system and the market and therefore you are limited by an authoritarian factor that isn't natural.
It's not a free system it is a system by which the participation of government (resource control) is bought and paid for.
Your will is not established but rather the will of the dollar.
A NELO government and NLRBE economy is the only true way to be free as it emulates the law and order of the ultimate freedom, existence.
Everything good in this world emulates existence, and everything evil the opposite.
Existence always creates and never destroys, always develops and always maintain's its integrity.
Only good can create, can repair, can experience can evolve and can survive, good is life.
Evil is destructive and self-destructive, evil is death.
Whatever promotes life holistically is good and whatever promotes death holistically is evil.
In reality, it is a spectrum between the two.
Public Health = Good.
Public Suffering/Death = Evil.
Power is the ability to do good things, freedom is our ability to have power.
Last edited by Izon; 04-25-2016 at 01:09 PM.
@ fsir and Izon.......Amazing, well thought out dialogue....... reliable, truth filled conclusions.....Thanks!!!!!