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Thread: The Concern About People Becoming Lazy/Dependent

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsir View Post
    I agree serial killers should not be tolerated and dealt with under any worthy resource management model.

    I was merely talking about people who just don't want to participate in a RBE and want to get together with others and voluntarily use money in their exchanges. Eliminating choice in what people can exchange their energy for is a rather restrictive path to go down and will beget accusations of despotism.
    Exchange is fine as long as it occurs lawfully.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izon View Post
    Exchange is fine as long as it occurs lawfully.
    Yea but what's the law? Does the law say people cannot use money and have to contribute their energy to a RBE cooperative?

    What if they say "I don't want to contribute my energy to the cooperative and I don't want the goods and supplies generated by a cooperative RBE. I want to get together with others and use our allotted land to practice a monetary, hierarchal labor exchange system amongst ourselves. Do you mind?"

    Will you tell them they can't do that?
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsir View Post
    Yea but what's the law? Does the law say people cannot use money and have to contribute their energy to a RBE cooperative?

    What if they say "I don't want to contribute my energy to the cooperative and I don't want the goods and supplies generated by a cooperative RBE. I want to get together with others and use our allotted land to practice a monetary, hierarchal labor exchange system amongst ourselves. Do you mind?"

    Will you tell them they can't do that?
    It would be an illegal use of resources a degradational activity participating in the act that degrades the standard function of society specifically one that limits and restricts the resources society has into the hands of private tyrannies.

    All the world's resources is the common heritage of all the world's people, NELO, TVP, TZM law.
    Last edited by Izon; 03-19-2016 at 10:09 AM.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izon View Post
    It would be an illegal use of resources a degradational activity participating in the act that degrades the standard function of society specifically one that limits and restricts the resources society has into the hands of private tyrannies.

    All the world's resources is the common heritage of all the world's people.
    So there will be no avenue, under your model, for anyone to legally practice a monetary, heiarchal labor system? Not even the most environmentally conscious form?

    You can't just have separate laws dealing with environmental abuse and exploitation in multiple resource management models?

    You have to completely outlaw monetary exchange for everyone?

    Note: I just want to make clear I am for a RBE but I'm playing Devil's advocate because I anticipate you're going to run up against some pretty strong arguments if you play a RBE too restrictive.
    Last edited by fsir; 03-19-2016 at 10:11 AM.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsir View Post
    So there will be no avenue, under your model, for anyone to legally practice a monetary, heiarchal labor system? Not even the most environmentally conscious form?

    You can't just have separate laws dealing with environmental abuse and exploitation in multiple resource management models?

    You have to completely outlaw monetary exchange for everyone?
    The monetary exchange involves the privatization of resources thereby creating private tyrannies with the world resources it also degrades the influence and potential society has to prosper in a unified and equilibrius manner.

    It violates the law saying all the resources of the earth are the common heritage of the world's people.

    No alternative form of exchange that privatizes resources this is an access based system not a property-based system.

    Indeed, I enjoy a good exchange with a devil's advocate.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izon View Post
    The monetary exchange involves the privatization of resources thereby creating private tyrannies with the world resources it also degrades the influence and potential society has to prosper in a unified and equilibrius manner.

    It violates the law saying all the resources of the earth are the common heritage of the world's people.

    No alternative form of exchange that privatizes resources this is an access based system not a property-based system.

    Indeed, I enjoy a good exchange with a devil's advocate.
    It seems to me, if you're going to go as far as outlawing people from forming subgroups of monetary exchange and hierarchal labor institutions, you could just as well allow them and regulate them so they can't control, overwhelm or interfere with other resource management philosophies and models, namely an overlapping structure all voluntary resource management models can fit into but that protects the planet and the exploitation of its resources from all of them.

    So if they can't interfere, obstruct and incorporate the involuntary participants of other models, they can't really grow to be what they are today. They can't exploit other people who disagree because the other options will be protected. The other options will always be there so the path to becoming this eight-headed monster that devours the planet is cut off from them.

    In other words, the overriding law would say "You can't grow your resource management model to the point it excludes other voluntary options."

    And that means everyone would have to follow some basic ground rules on how land was distributed for use. A monetary system would be allowed to exist but it wouldn't be allowed to just gobble up land until everyone had to participate in a monetary system to access land. So in return for allowing people to practice a monetary system, they would have to accept some restrictions on how land was exchanged and distributed and resources used.

    That way you don't have to seem like a total tyrannical overlord but be able to say "Yes, you can practice monetary exchange but you can't destroy the planet or subject anyone unwilling to be subjected to your resource management philosophy."

    I just want TZM to have good public relations.
    Last edited by fsir; 03-19-2016 at 10:56 AM.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsir View Post
    It seems to me, if you're going to go as far as outlawing people from forming subgroups of monetary exchange and hierarchal labor institutions, you could just as well allow them and regulate them so they can't control, overwhelm or interfere with other resource management philosophies and models, namely an overlapping structure all voluntary resource management models can fit into but that protects the planet and the exploitation of its resources from all of them.

    So if they can't interfere, obstruct and incorporate the involuntary participants of other models, they can't really grow to be what they are today. They can't exploit other people who disagree because the other options will be protected. The other options will always be there so the path to becoming this eight-headed monster that devours the planet is cut off from them.

    In other words, the overriding law would say "You can't grow your resource management model to the point it excludes other voluntary options."

    And that means everyone would have to follow some basic ground rules on how land was distributed for use. A monetary system would be allowed to exist but it wouldn't be allowed to just gobble up land until everyone had to participate in a monetary system to access land. So in return for allowing people to practice a monetary system, they would have to accept some restrictions on how land was exchanged and distributed and resources used.

    That way you don't have to seem like a total tyrannical overlord but be able to say "Yes, you can practice monetary exchange but you can't destroy the planet or subject anyone unwilling to be subjected to your resource management philosophy."

    I just want TZM to have good public relations.
    There is a problem with this the minute we the institution walk over and say that land will now be used for A or B or if the resources they use are being taken out of the economy then they are degrading its status.

    They are also breaking the law that says all the world's resources belongs to all the world's people.

    Sure you could just let them practice under our authority but they will instantly interfere with our potential and influence as well as our economic status.

    It would be like someone taking a car or a piece of land and saying it's mine can't have that in an access based economy based on equilibrium and unity, no hoarding of wealth.

    It's cancerous and we cannot allow it to grow as it is inherently malignant.

    There may be a loop-hole good luck finding it

    The minute any access is restricted to a resource due to wealth or anything pertaining to a monetary system you have broken the law, privatization = tyranny.



    Liberal Tyranny is required to counter Oppressive tyranny.

    Our tyranny assures the freedom of the people and the common heritage of resources of the earth + universe etc to the people.

    Compared to private tyrannies that control the resources for their own selfish desires.
    Last edited by Izon; 03-19-2016 at 11:24 AM.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izon View Post
    There is a problem with this the minute we the institution walk over and say that land will now be used for A or B or if the resources they use are being taken out of the economy then they are degrading its status.

    They are also breaking the law that says all the world's resources belongs to all the world's people.

    Sure you could just let them practice under our authority but they will instantly interfere with our potential and influence as well as our economic status.

    It would be like someone taking a car or a piece of land and saying it's mine can't have that in an access based economy based on equilibrium and unity, no hoarding of wealth.

    It's cancerous and we cannot allow it to grow as it is inherently malignant.

    There may be a loop-hole good luck finding it

    The minute any access is restricted to a resource due to wealth or anything pertaining to a monetary system you have broken the law, privatization = tyranny.



    Liberal Tyranny is required to counter Oppressive tyranny.

    Our tyranny assures the freedom of the people and the common heritage of resources of the earth + universe etc to the people.

    Compared to private tyrannies that control the resources for their own selfish desires.
    I won't belabor this much further and give you the last word but I do think the structure I'm suggesting has built-in obstructions to resource imbalances. After all who is going to participate by contributing their labor to support a resource management model that is exhibiting increasing signs of resource distribution imbalance and centralization when there is another option available with much more equitable resource distribution results?

    And I assume there must be some privatization in even a RBE? I mean, we can't share access to a toothbrush and even regarding land, I can't imagine people would be okay with being granted use of a portion of land in a RBE and then the cooperative swooping in and saying "You can't use that anymore. You've got to move."

    No one is going to want to go down to the tool library every single time they need a hammer or a pair of scissors or a pair of tweezers. And clothes, obviously, have to have some privatization to them.

    Anyway, thanks for indulging my questions/concerns. Okay, the floor is yours.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsir View Post
    I won't belabor this much further and give you the last word but I do think the structure I'm suggesting has built-in obstructions to resource imbalances. After all who is going to participate by contributing their labor to support a resource management model that is exhibiting increasing signs of resource distribution imbalance and centralization when there is another option available with much more equitable resource distribution results?

    And I assume there must be some privatization in even a RBE? I mean, we can't share access to a toothbrush and even regarding land, I can't imagine people would be okay with being granted use of a portion of land in a RBE and then the cooperative swooping in and saying "You can't use that anymore. You've got to move."

    No one is going to want to go down to the tool library every single time they need a hammer or a pair of scissors or a pair of tweezers. And clothes, obviously, have to have some privatization to them.

    Anyway, thanks for indulging my questions/concerns. Okay, the floor is yours.
    The privatization is applied through equilibrium and on a free basis.

    Not through private tyranny applied on an individual's worth.

    All human's are of equal worth and thereby have equal access to all the world's resources as it is the common heritage of all the world's people.

    We share access to the production and products of the world not to the personal possessions of individuals that system works like a library for recycling etc unless it cannot be recycled then it is applied in an equilibrius manner.

    Last edited by Izon; 03-19-2016 at 01:14 PM.
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