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Thread: How would it be decided who lives where?

  1. #131
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    > The response does not answer the question..

    I would be interested to hear what answers you have towards the scenario.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL9000 View Post
    I follow only two rules:
    1.never give a loan
    2.never take a loan

    If i have money i buy stuff with it; if i don't have money i don't buy stuff. wow that issue was easy to solve .



    The problem we have today is a result of greedy bankers and also greedy public - why buy something if you don't have the money to purchase it and then blame the bankers
    That's true, but the banks control the money supply and through their whims, malpractice, and lack of ethics, they can boom and bust the economy.

    Also, don't forget the predatory lending practices 10 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by HAL9000 View Post
    Who is responsible for the housing crisis? the public.
    I put the least amount of blame on the public because they were the dumbest of the bunch. Predatory lenders would knowingly rope questionable borrowers into a sale. Bankers would package bad debt into sandwiches like shoving one slice of bad meat into a sub to get rid of it. Ratings agencies would rate the package highly because they would lose business if they didn't. Then wall street would buy it because they knew they could sell it to Norway's pensioners. What brought the house of cards down was high commodity prices which left no money for the payment of loans.

    Of the lot, only the public didn't know what they were doing.

    Who is responsible for the stock market crashes? the public.
    Once again, the bankers at the central bank cause that. First they lower interest rates to sucker everyone in and then they jack them up until they crash the economy. I don't want to get too far into that because I'm planning to start a thread on that very topic.

    Who is responsible for being in debt? the public of course.
    Yeah, I suppose so, but it's a lot like trying to determine who is responsible for the drug problem; is it the pusher or the user? And not just illegal drugs, but drug companies push their drugs onto the public because paying lawsuits is a small price for the revenue they generate by tv ads and the blessings of doctors who tow the line.

    Also, you have to remember that money is debt. If all debt disappeared, then all money would be gone. All money is loaned into existence.

    A simple example is if you loan me $20, then I give you a paper stating that I owe you $20. You can sell the debt to someone else in exchange for currency or whatever. I can also spend the $20 just the same. So the act of creating a loan is the same as creating money.

    Here's a video about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyJj5La8tWA

    We can't have a fixed money supply like bitcoin or gold because we'd run out of money and that is due to the transfer of value from an employee to an employer. If an employee is paid $10/hr, it is only because he is transferring $12/hr (or more) to his employer. It's difficult to visualize, but if you really give it some deep thought, you'll eventually see that a fixed money supply would run out of money because of the act of employment. I'm going to start a thread about that too because it is so difficult to get one's head around. Molyneux couldn't.
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  3. #133
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    > it's a lot like trying to determine who is responsible for the drug problem; is it the pusher or the user?

    I like to think about it like food, are people who are overweight due to their own behaviours, or are the evil food companies pushing food onto them..
    HAL9000 likes this.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouTuber View Post
    > it's a lot like trying to determine who is responsible for the drug problem; is it the pusher or the user?

    I like to think about it like food, are people who are overweight due to their own behaviours, or are the evil food companies pushing food onto them..
    Both are true, but which of the two is a sin against society and which is merely a personal problem?

    Having a weak constitution is one thing, but deliberately tempting and sometimes misleading people is another. That is why tobacco advertisement is no longer allowed... no need to glamorize a vice.
    HAL9000 and Ernest like this.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouTuber View Post
    > it's a lot like trying to determine who is responsible for the drug problem; is it the pusher or the user?

    I like to think about it like food, are people who are overweight due to their own behaviours, or are the evil food companies pushing food onto them..
    Its a great philosophical question. i believe both are true and at same time neither are true.
    What's responsible for the irrational and greedy behavior of both victims and perpetrators is the system... so we can say that they are all victims of the system. but at the same time people need to take responsibility for their actions while we still operate in a monetary system.

    I think you are all correct about people taking advantage of weaker people, but in the case of loans/housing crisis etc.. they are not taking advantage of human ignorance but human GREED.
    people take loans and gamble in the stock market to keep up with Joneses or impress a mate or whatever.... buying things they don't need with money they don't have; they need to pay the consequences.
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  6. #136
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    > What's responsible for the irrational and greedy behavior of both victims and perpetrators is the system...

    I see the system being 'evolution', and the behaviour can be seen as rational if viewed as a whole.

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouTuber View Post
    > The response does not answer the question..

    I would be interested to hear what answers you have towards the scenario.
    OK...

    Its likely quite similar to yours with one primary exception.....I believe that the concept of 'owning' a piece of Land was (and still is perhaps) foreign for the vast majority of human history, as can be evidenced by what historical data has been preserved since WHITE folks 'invaded' the Continents that the dominant (colonizers) culture calls the Americas .... Continents that were and still are loaded with BROWN PEOPLE..... Most WHITE folks convientaly forget that Natives, Mexicans and many more Brown folks have ancestry in the Americas that PRE DATE European exploitation and THEFT by centuries..... a theft that we as a society have selected to ignore .... its just too painful to admit and/or accept responsibility for some of these things....or even offer any legitimate form of compassion, it appears to me anyway....but I do have some biases ....based on a lifetime of experiences.... and some opinions....based on much study and research.

    For an 'eye opening' primer on this subject I can only advise one to research Native American History, as taught on most Reservations and many State Universities with a Native population.....Doing so will enlighten 'all' who have been educated by the current system and will clearly explain what 'manifest destiny' actually means to those who have suffered from the 'unjustifiable' justifications of the despicable actions from White Colonial Terrorists....Actions that continue to some extent even today.....against Brown people.


    As Tecumseh once told us; 'One cannot own the Land anymore than one can own the air'...

    Alas, the scourge of Capitalism has proven this to be false, no?.....at a cost going back generations in the billions of humans, indoctrinated from birth and placed willingly in a form of culturally accepted slavery...i.e. the pursuit of some kind of JOB... or LOTS of Money or Stuff to compensate for the loss we 'feel' but can no longer describe in an articulate manner, being we are so far removed...and disconnected....and deeply and collectively disturbed


    Do you 'feel' me now?
    Last edited by droneBEE; 3 Weeks Ago at 12:58 PM.
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  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL9000 View Post
    Its a great philosophical question. i believe both are true and at same time neither are true.
    What's responsible for the irrational and greedy behavior of both victims and perpetrators is the system... so we can say that they are all victims of the system. but at the same time people need to take responsibility for their actions while we still operate in a monetary system.

    I think you are all correct about people taking advantage of weaker people, but in the case of loans/housing crisis etc.. they are not taking advantage of human ignorance but human GREED.
    people take loans and gamble in the stock market to keep up with Joneses or impress a mate or whatever.... buying things they don't need with money they don't have; they need to pay the consequences.
    So it's the greedy suckering the greedy? I can see that to some extent. It's the greedy hoping to buy a new Ferrari suckering the greedy hoping to move into a 5 bedroom house that he previously thought he couldn't afford, but has been assured he can by people who are supposed to know such things by virtue of their profession. In the end, the family guy is kicked out because of his greed while the central banks print the money necessary for the new Ferrari and throw in some extra for a yacht and house in the Hamptons.

    Why "Nothing Matters": Central Banks Have Bought A Record $1 Trillion In Assets In 2017 | Zero Hedge

    We're a decade beyond the crisis and the banks are still using that as an excuse to funnel $200 billion per month into the hands of people who have so much money that they leave it on deposit at the central bank where it does nothing. Why is it too much to ask that if you're going to print money and hand it out, why not send it to people who would actually spend it? I guess we can't do that because welfare is 'bad" and if we're going to hand out money, it should only go to the ones who "deserve" it.

    So the BOJ is printing money to aggressively buy shares in the stock market in order to create inflation. If you owe shares, you'll see some of that money. If you don't have the money to own the shares, then you'll be asked to pay the inflation anyway. So, effectively, it's a transfer of money from the poor to the rich. Every central bank is up to the same shenanigans. They create a crisis which gives them the justification to give money to the rich under the guise of helping the economy and then the poor are made to pay for it... and few are smart enough to figure it out.

    The same song and dance has been going on for centuries. This video should be required for every student on earth:

    Ernest likes this.

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