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Thread: How would it be decided who lives where?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    b b b But, You only offered 2 possibilities, no?
    I brought up 2 solutions; we know they're possible because they happen or have happened before. The kind of stuff that TZM/TVP/etc propose have to be shown to work. It's not actually a solution if it hasn't been proven to work yet; it's merely a proposal. It's not just or mainly a question of whether or not it will or won't work, but what it will take to get it to work. There's even the issue of having to make the transition over to it. Philosophically speaking, there's the conceptual possibility that something can work if it can be achieved or reached, but impossible to reach yet, maybe because the tools needed to get there don't exist yet. That alone, in effect, makes it not a solution (yet). A movement that advocates the scientific method isn't going to claim that something that hasn't been proven is a solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    If ya haven't bothered to read the book, why bother to comment?.....its already your loss (and your mistake to assume to know what's inside based on a few paragraphs)
    Because I'm not commenting on the basis that I've read the book. I did read the summary, which is something that does provide something that I can comment on.

    If you were to hand me a road map of Wisconsin, should I have to look through the entire thing to make the comment that it isn't a road map of Virginia?

    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    I personally believe its the only way toward a meaningful Transition (I've read the book ...? 3 times) and it can be used to offer light bulb moments to those who did;t know they were seeking them
    Ok, that's essentially like saying "if you're ever in Wisconsin here's a map that shows some interesting places or sites to visit", in which case that's would be cool. But when I want to be able to get around in Virginia, a map of Wisconsin won't do me any good, for that purpose.

    If you're saying that there are a few nuggets of valuable things buried within that book that you believe would be of interest to folks on this forum, why not simply create a thread on each one? Just be sure to follow proper quotation & citation protocols, give credit to the source & author, etc.

    In general, though, there are probably thousands of books out there with a few nuggets of valuable things buried within them; if I should read this book why not find and read all those other books too? I don't want to have to read an entire book with a philosophy that I don't generally agree with just to find maybe 2 or 3 things I find interesting. I want the book that's full of treasure; show me a book with a summary like that, and I'll more likely be willing to read it.

    I'm not saying I'll absolutely never read it. Maybe from happenstance I might end up reading it. For practical reasons, though, not only do I already have so much on my plate, which involves reading so many other things, even if I were to read that book, it would just end up being a book that goes to the back of the line - which reminds me, I've had similar encounters with ancaps on RPF asking me to read this or that; I'm probably just as likely going to read all the stuff they've asked me to read, but so far I haven't even done that yet, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    More capitalism will never equal less capitalism....sorry
    Hear! Hear! Why do you think I make such a big fuss about climate change hysteria given that carbon taxes/credits/markets/trading is what's proposed or pitched as the "solution" for an alleged problem? Even for climate change, transitioning to a post-scarcity society or "RBE" is the only proposal that I think can fix the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    As for DC....my plans are the same.....I'm supposed to be there all week next week, over Veterans Day testifying before Congressional Committees.....staying at the Harrington, Downtown DC.

    Unfortunately, some health issues have been rising lately (spent the better part of the October in hospitals) and I have some tests the day before I'm scheduled to leave....I'll know more then.....
    Ok. I hope those results turn out alright for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    Too bad about your bees in the Flow Hive (I've been about hearing similar problems and others, turns out they weren't all they were cracked up to be).....
    what I did was I added a regular super to it & had the Flow Hive super on top of that, so the hive could keep the first super food supply for itself. That, in addition to being there in their 1st year in that hive, meant there wouldn't be any honey from it anyways (from what I understand). Their 8-frame Langstroth boxes aren't compatible with the ones I got from a local bee supply place. The length/width dimensions are slightly different, and the entrance is slightly smaller. Maybe it's a metric vs. imperial units thing, since they're from Australia. As a result of being smaller, "US" entrance reducers don't fit in the entrance (I suppose they also don't use entrance reducers in Australia), so in places where they're needed they'll need to be custom or home made.

    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    I'm sure glad we don't have those SHB up here....at least not yet.....
    You may want to be prepared; according to this map they do exist in your neck of the woods: https://wadesbees.files.wordpress.co...stribution.jpg

    Be aggressive with SHBs if you ever see any; they can destroy a hive very quickly, which I learned directly for myself. Even though I those traps in there, and they were filling up with SHBs, they still caused the hive to swarm. I didn't know how bad it was until the hive was emptied of all its bees and I took the hive apart to examine it.

    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    (we had 60F yesterday, warmest October and November on record so far....Global Warming 'may' be contrived (?) but it sure is weird out there....my Northern bred bees are confused..they 'should' be in full cluster mode right now, not out flying around seeking nectar/pollen that won't be around for another 6 months!!!!..
    One thing I've learned is that bees do have many challenges to deal with. Maybe it's not a bad thing that they have a chance to gather up more raw materials while at the same time helping plants pollinate.

    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    That said....We made splits out of all our winter survivors, some we able to split agin, doubling our total colonies to 8, then I caught 3 swarms,,,so we've got 11 going into winter....IF it ever comes....A dozen or so is generally what we like to have in our home yard....
    I haven't had a chance to split hives or capture swarms, yet. You're ahead of me!

    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    ....Now, C'mon Winter!!!!!

    Sure sucks getting old.....but it beats the alternative, no?
    I have a philosophy about aging: when one grows up one then grows old. So, what I'm going to do is never grow up. Of course, that's not exactly scientifically sound reasoning or thinking, but then I'd have to be grown up to worry about that. LOL
    Last edited by Neil; 11-03-2016 at 10:21 AM.

  2. #102
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    Holy Crapoly Batman! Man, you have a lot to say........and While i'd love to answer every single response...I'm afraid it'd take up more time in front of this device than I'm willing to give up....having much to do outside before the snows eventually (?) arrive....

    Although....as it relates to aging; since I've already lived a lot of living over a long while (closer to 70 than 60) I personally feel age and the knowledge one obtains during a lifetime, the experiences one selects/receives is mostly relative and yet also arbitrary.....TBH: I still run into wiser 10 year olds than some of the 60, 70 & 80 year olds encountered on this journey..... (its still a shame you refuse to read LAND)

    Beekeeping has a sharp learning curve that never really ends....
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  3. #103
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    A nice long interesting thread, my thoughts on various aspects picked from it:

    > a coin toss. random coin toss is justice.

    If it was just a single toss, but lets say A has a bigger family than B, then by the laws of chance, A is going to win more coin tosses. :-(


    > If people are finding it harder to get by today than 30 yrs ago,
    > then maybe they are reaching for luxury items too much because
    > staples are cheaper than ever.

    At least in my country, the biggest expensive is housing !

    A Small Central London Flat 'Will Cost 36m On Average By 2050' | The Huffington Post

    2,000 years to save up for on minimumn wage job..



    > If someone is given a plot of land and fails to meet the responsibility
    > of caring for the amount of land they have, that new data would be
    > entered in for computation in determining if the person should remain
    > in charge of that amount

    You just described some aspects of Scottish land ownership. :-)

    It all started with:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances

    Rich folk wanted sheep produced in large numbers for cheap meat, and cheap wool, plus their skins are excellent for writing on..

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchment

    Which is important when you have an ever increasing legal system that needs lots of documents. :-)

    Fast forward to today, and things haven't changed much..

    In parts of Scotland you can't just go and buy a piece of land, build a house on it and do what you want, oh no !

    First find some land that someone is selling, then make sure no one is renting that land who might object..

    Then, after you get your land, your need permission to build a house on it, which you probably won't get unless its considered in the local development zone decided by your local government..

    Even if you do get to build a house, you aren't allowed a large garden beyond 1/2 an acre, the rest of the land unless its real special (De-crofted.) you have to do something with, or else it gets taken off you and someone else decides what to do with it !

    But even if you decide what to do with it, if any of your neigbours disagree that you aren't fit to look after the land, they can have its use taken off you..

    You still own it, just they rent it !

    And you can't sell it without the renters permission !

    So...

    If you decide you want to build a forest, and yet all your neigbours are sheep farmers, well, you are out of luck if they disagree !

    As such, economic development in those areas is at a snails pace..


    > randomly allocate people to cities and thereby city sectors

    Sounds like a 101 guide in how to invade other countries to me. :-)


    > Amish in general tend to avoid debt and labor saving technology.

    I guess they understand that if they did use labour saving technology they would become unemployed !



    -----------
    The majority of Indigenous American tribes maintained their hunting grounds and agricultural lands for use of the entire tribe. Europeans at that time had patriarchal cultures and had developed concepts of individual property rights with respect to land that were extremely different."
    -----------

    In the UK at least, we did/do have common grazing land:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_land


    > So people doing those jobs, important for society, can have priority in getting a land they want.

    That reminds me of a commune I heard about that tried that approach, as such people invented jobs that was really important, far more important than a doctor for example, say a flower arranger, and they got the best spots !

    After a while the commune fell into disrepair as there was no one able or willing to fix things, and everyone left !



    > Tell me why I, as an individual living in an RBE, would feel the desire to own land.

    Mating rights !

    Your family/genetic pool gets to spread over the land and win over everyone else.



    > More capitalism will never equal less capitalism....sorry

    Wouldn't a profit sharing cooperative = more capitalism, but at the same time, equal less capitalism ? (Eg. no share holders taking profit from the workers..)


    As to the question of, how do you decide who gets the best plots of land, I'd suggest doing something we programmers do when we don't know the answer to a problem, fix it later. :-)

    Thus you work on all the things you know the answers to, and leave everything else till some other time.


    So our question should be, what can we do today that will change things ?

    And focus on those things, leaving everything else for some other day.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by SophicDrippins View Post
    This is the question that brought me here. After listening to Jacque on youtube and seeing all the buildings he's designed, it dawned on me: How will it be decided who lives in the best spots?
    I think the very notion of having a particular place that one lives in, might be something that is eventually phased out as the artificial borders currently enforced on the human population are gradually removed?

    Perhaps with the abolishment of worldwide scarcity, there will be less of a need for people to have a particular 'place' to live? Maybe people might transition to a more transient lifestyle, where the entire planet is able to be explored and experienced, without having to worry about not having somewhere to live?

    Clearly this lifestyle would obviously not be for everyone, and Im sure that people would still want a place they could call 'home'.

    I would envisage a solution which would be based on the (hopefully) evolving values of the general human population, after the abolishment of currency. By this I mean that after currency is abolished, there may well be a paradigm shift in peoples concepts of 'value', as people start to move away from the current exchange based way of thinking, and into a more generous mindset.

    This will mean that in society, the people will the most perceived 'value' will be those who are most generous, or who give the most, in contrast to todays society (generally speaking), where the more material possessions one acquires, the more perceived value that individual is attributed by the general population.

    Building on this prediction, I would suggest that a good way to perpetuate a more 'giving' values system, and solve the problem of how to decide where people would live, would be to reward those who give the most. One way this system could do so, would be to allow the most giving individuals to have first pick of the places they wanted to live, almost like a system of 'altruistic credit'. This system could be managed autonomously by a de-centralised technology platform, to ensure transparency and equality.

    What are your thoughts on something like this?

    Cheers,

    Rhett
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    - Only love can be divided endlessly and still not diminish -

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  5. #105
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    Giving back, Volunteering, spreading Love, resisting intolerance....

    When combined and selected as a 'way of life' ...all have a way of multiplying the reciprocal rewards given back to the giver... Some would call that Karma I suppose I call it the 'secret' to living/co-existing in this world ....
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhett Huntloy View Post
    I think the very notion of having a particular place that one lives in, might be something that is eventually phased out as the artificial borders currently enforced on the human population are gradually removed?

    Perhaps with the abolishment of worldwide scarcity, there will be less of a need for people to have a particular 'place' to live? Maybe people might transition to a more transient lifestyle, where the entire planet is able to be explored and experienced, without having to worry about not having somewhere to live?

    Clearly this lifestyle would obviously not be for everyone, and Im sure that people would still want a place they could call 'home'.
    Welcome!

    Umm, well... I'm betting that you like to travel lol Those are really hard questions.

    On one hand, if people decided that borders are artificial and desired to make use of my land tomorrow, I'd probably come out shooting. Honestly, I can't explain why I'm so territorial, but it might have to do with the lack of respect for the land that most people have. If I could trust people to not injure the trees, dump their trash out and basically display all sorts of disrespect and lack of consideration, then I may be a little more in a mood to share (is that what the native americans felt?). So it's not that I'm hoarding resources or being stingy, but that I fear they will trash the place.

    To expand on that, there is a picturesque place for riding atvs and bikes provided by tax money. Some joker dumps 6-months-worth of garbage out that the animals ripped apart and spread everywhere. Can you believe that I am the only guy to clean it up? It took me 3 trips! Every time I'd go up there for a ride, I'd grab a truck load and then repurpose things I could and carry to the landfill what I couldn't. Not even park rangers cared and they would get paid to clean it up. Probably scores of people drove past the pile for months and did nothing. In light of that, you're suggesting we remove borders and share the land equally? It seems a little idealistic.

    On the other hand, if I were born into a society where possessions are not owned, then I would know no different and live my life accordingly. Perhaps I would have had no interest in the earth since I had no personal investment in it. It's hard for me to imagine such an arrangement and I can't offer any unique perspective except being that of a property owner.

    Btw, I went to https://www.theidea.online/ and the first thing I thought after viewing that pic was "Omg, does anyone realize the amount of work necessary to make all those plants grow like that???" I'm a weird one

    I would envisage a solution which would be based on the (hopefully) evolving values of the general human population, after the abolishment of currency. By this I mean that after currency is abolished, there may well be a paradigm shift in peoples concepts of 'value', as people start to move away from the current exchange based way of thinking, and into a more generous mindset.

    This will mean that in society, the people will the most perceived 'value' will be those who are most generous, or who give the most, in contrast to todays society (generally speaking), where the more material possessions one acquires, the more perceived value that individual is attributed by the general population.

    Building on this prediction, I would suggest that a good way to perpetuate a more 'giving' values system, and solve the problem of how to decide where people would live, would be to reward those who give the most. One way this system could do so, would be to allow the most giving individuals to have first pick of the places they wanted to live, almost like a system of 'altruistic credit'. This system could be managed autonomously by a de-centralised technology platform, to ensure transparency and equality.
    I've given that a bit of thought from the perspective of the selection of men by women: How will status be measured? I answered that by reckoning, in the absence of money, women would choose the men who were most empathetic and who made the most contributions to society. But that will invariably turn into some kind of reverence for those people and classes will develop once again. I think the buddhists call that "trading chains of iron for chains of gold."

    If "giving" is the currency, then the richest will be those who are genetically equipped to make the most contributions. That's kinda how it is now. Zuckerberg gave us Facebook , so now he's one of the richest. The problem is that a few slime-balls wormed their way into the reward system by underhanded means and I'm not sure how the change of currency from paper to some sort of unspoken merit system will prevent that problem since the root is in human nature.

    What's the difference in a person who gives to someone because he truly empathizes with the other person's pain and the one who gives because he gets recognition for it? The effect is the same, but the motivation is different.

    The only way out that I can see is to educate and increase iq such that people choose to be moral and agree to play by the rules because they're smart enough to see that it's the best way.
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  7. #107
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    > reward those who give the most.

    So, rich people then. :-)


    > I can't explain why I'm so territorial

    Oh I can !

    If someone has land they are more attractive than someone else who doesn't have land, so if you are landless, you could well be single !

    This is why humans fight over land, or access to land..

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    > Can you believe that I am the only guy to clean it up?

    Reminds me of recent gutter weeding I did around the local roads here, because no one else has bothered to in the last decade its grown about 2ft into the road !

    Luckily I found a neighbour with a large hole they wanted filled.


    I'm also reminded of a park near where I used to live once, which had a very nice path to walk along, but the sharp pointy weeds used to overwhelm the path and make it impossible to walk along.

    As I went there practically every day, I used to take a rechargeable hedge trimmer with me and keep the path clear.

    Now I no longer live there, I can imagine it went back to the old way, even though lots of people would use it when it was clear, no one else was bothered to do anything to maintain it.
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    > increase iq

    Doesn't that require selective breeding. :-)

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    > women would choose the men who were

    Physically strong to help protect said woman.

    Who had their own car, and house with a large garden !

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