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Thread: Staunch disbelievers of the afterlife - Always the first to quit.

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    No way Ernest, I'm still waiting for Chris4629 to answer the questions placed before him…(it may be a while, self absorption seems entrenched) ....after he 'self-reflects' upon the looking glass for a while….. …sorry…..

    For someone proclaiming 'they don't give a damn' he sure seems to ….(the 'approach' still needs some work in order to be effective though)
    What questions are you talking about??

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris4629 View Post
    What questions are you talking about??
    Ahhh, there's the proof that you haven't been reading others posts….but instead self-focusing on your own assertions.

    You know my friend, there's a very good reason why we have one mouth and two ears……..(Please, enough with the BOLD lettering, it doesn't make your points any more valid)

    Not meant to offend, but my assignment to you is to go back and read this thread, particularly your responses, maybe you'll discover something, maybe not.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    Ahhh, there's the proof that you haven't been reading others posts….but instead self-focusing on your own assertions.

    You know my friend, there's a very good reason why we have one mouth and two ears……..(Please, enough with the BOLD lettering, it doesn't make your points any more valid)

    Not meant to offend, but my assignment to you is to go back and read this thread, particularly your responses, maybe you'll discover something, maybe not.
    After going back and looking through everything you've said there, the only question I can see you were asking me is how can I explain your and other people's longevity in this movement?

    My response to that is what I was saying with regards to my own personal experience is just that, personal experience. Because personal experience is merely anecdotal, it can't ever be used to prove a point. However, real science which actually applies the scientific method, allows for anecdotal evidence if it is only used in support of hard, empirical evidence and the study I mentioned regarding the tests on people brains who hold material reductionist thoughts is empirical evidence. Beyond that, any person can probably do that experiment for themselves at home because you can probably buy all the things you need for that experiment online. It also supports what I've heard from every single person I've known who has been in combat who's told me "there are no atheists in foxholes." I don't know yours (or other people that you mention) stories. I have not had my own personal experience outside of what I've experienced (and I'm not about to go there because that sounds silly anyway.) So basically the answer to your question there is that I don't know because I haven't been around you and I haven't been around any of the other people you are referring to. I don't know how much you guys contribute to this in the real world, and as I've been saying in my previous posts, all I'm saying is from my own personal experience. That's entirely annecdotal, BUT it's allowable if used to support hard empirical data like I've mentioned before with the empirical studies involving the brains of people who hold reductionist materialist thoughts. That is the basis for the scientific method and not refusing to examine all evidence and simply resorting to name calling which is what you guys and particularly the Ryan Johnson kid at Z day are doing..

    Beyond that like I've said several times throughout what I've been saying in all my posts, is that I don't care what you or anyone else think and believe about the afterlife. That's everyone's personal business. What I do care about is when people like you guys and especially that Ryan Johnson kid try to claim something is truth (factual) when it hasn't been proven empirically true (factual). That is the ABSOLUTE OPPOSITE of The Zeitgeist Movement, and like I've already said before, if practiced on a mass scale, it would create a nightmarish type of system like an even sicker version of The Soviet Union.

    I just read a post you left on another thread that says "Science is the only religion worthy of faith." I agree with that completely, but that is that I only agree with the purest meaning of that statement. Real science is another word for "truth" or "the closest approximation that we as humankind have ever come towards truth." Real science can only be arrived at through applying the real scientific method and that isn't ever applied by refusing to examine all evidence and simply resorting to name calling. Needless to say, that isn't real science at all and that's what you guys are doing and (my point particularly) is what that Ryan Johnson kid did at Z Day Berlin under the facade of "The Scientific Method" as the topic for his speech.

    There's 2 types of science. One is totally real and authentic because it applies the real scientific method and the other type of "science" is utterly bogus and is as ridiculous as religion is. Right now our mainstream "science" is a farce and thus far, after communicating with you (and a few of the other people on here), is the only thing I can think of that you all are advocating for (the fake "science") by what you stated in your post that "Science is the only religion worthy of faith." We have a whole mainstream "scientific" community that has acted in absolute total disgrace. Everyone from Neale Degrasse Tyson, to Phyl Nye to Christopher Hitchens to Richard Dawkins to Stephen Hawking have stood behind the official 9/11 story (for example) which is on the level of believing in Santa Claus or The Tooth Fairy. ALL of these people within the "scientific" community know better than to buy this bullshit and there is no way in hell they can be considered anything other than suck ass bureaucrats to the status quo who are only sucking ass to collect a paycheck and keep their cowardly mouths shut. 9/11 not only should be an insult to even a 4 year old little child's intelligence but has thus far, lead to death of over 2 million people as these cowardly "scientists" have done nothing other than keep their mouths shut and collect their chump pay. So after talking with you (and some of the other people) on here, the only thing I can think of that (you) mean when you say that is to support this complete facade.

    That is not real science and anytime I hear anyone within TZM try to proclaim something as truth (which isn't truth) I'm gonna step up and confront it. What I'm gonna say is basically what Einstein said that "Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance" so like I've been saying it is true that the afterlife has not been empirically proven but at the same time, I'm not gonna stand for this horseshit like you guys and particularly the Ryan Johnson kid did at Z Day by trying to proclaim something as empirical truth when it most definitely is not. I'm not gonna put all my passion into something like this so that people like you guys can create a revised and even more nightmarish version of the Soviet Union with your "science".
    Last edited by Chris4629; 06-07-2015 at 08:33 AM.

  4. #24
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    If you could express your views about the afterlife like, let's say, Richard Feynman, I could add a bit more confidence to your comments. Your statements
    I've been saying it is true that the afterlife has not been empirically proven but at the same time, I'm not gonna stand for this horseshit like you guys and particularly the Ryan Johnson kid did at Z Day by trying to proclaim something as empirical truth when it most definitely is not. I'm not gonna put all my passion into something like this so that people like you guys can create a revised and even more nightmarish version of the Soviet Union with your "science".
    bring my confidence level to the point of considering the point of origin profile to be an Alex Jones sock puppet or bot. Didn't start that way but it seemed to me you had a shovel in your hand when you arrived.
    Can you prove that your audience are a bunch of guy's?
    I'll come down in that hole with you. I'm gonna use a ladder, not bringing a shovel.


    Old link I stashed, still good too, for a while. No https notice, HA /\

    However, you have become part of my Horizon through these comment boxes with the Good or Bad info you add into that. Diverting, deflecting, drama, you can learn from that too. The important bit is adding the info, strok'en those keys.

    There's my pretentious, condensing, passive aggressive, sarcastic, ad hominem reply. My name is Catlin Jenner here with a ladder, my back has an allergic reaction to shovels.
    Now that I'm down here you could go ahead and file that lawsuit.

    Maybe admin will do me a favor and delete this account. I don't even bother with the screenshots anymore, glad I brought the ladder..
    Last edited by RhythmAnarchy; 06-07-2015 at 04:15 PM.
    Everything Is Possible. Nothing Is True.
    (ψ = Σanψn)
    What do you know when the time is up and the door to the box is opened?
    It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but their social existence that determines their consciousness.

  5. #25
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    This toast is burnt beyond any palatability.
    RhythmAnarchy and Ernest like this.

  6. #26
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    Yeah that's my point exactly Rythm - "If it disagrees with experiment, it's wrong."

    There are experiments that are PROVING that your paradigm of outdated "science" has all sorts of holes in it. So if you watch this video, you'll see these scientists very clearly explain how because your version of outdated "science" disagrees with experiment, IT'S WRONG.

  7. #27
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    "much more likely that it is the known irrational characteristics of terrestrial intelligence"

    I don't recall expressing anything regarding a science paradigm, past or present. Oh... Holes, sorry I get it, no shovel..nice..

    The method is the method, but then it has to be applied. That may be where the Holy part begins. Now when the machines start applying the method, irrational characteristics will be the first thing they pull the plug on. That experiment may answer that afterlife question.



    I like burnt toast. another slice pleze
    Everything Is Possible. Nothing Is True.
    (ψ = Σanψn)
    What do you know when the time is up and the door to the box is opened?
    It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but their social existence that determines their consciousness.

  8. #28
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    "Staunch disbelievers of the afterlife - Always the first to quit."

    That title could definitely get some people riled up. XD

    As the founder of my local Zeitgeist Chapter as well as starting my own television show advocating for The Zeitgeist Movement, I've seen plenty of people come and go from our groups. In watching who stays and who leaves, I've noticed a very common trend emerge. The people who choose to stay (like most definitely myself) have a very strong resonation with the after-life. I would consider all of these people (myself included) to be very non-religious but very spiritual. We know deeply that we are here for a reason, that there is ultimate purpose and meaning to life and that regardless of whatever may happen to us on this planet, it's not gonna be the end of us because consciousness is eternal and therefore we live forever.

    On the other hand,I've noticed a very common trend among those who stay with our group for a little while and then quit on us. The trend that is very, very prevalent are people who are staunch disbelievers of the after-life and because of their reductionist materialism views, believe that life is simply an accident and that there is no higher meaning or purpose to why they are here. I've seen that not only will those people quit on us but they very usually end up becoming extremely cynical of the potential for the Resource Based/Natural Law Economy and I think, being fairly put, end up doing a lot more harm than good. I say that because becoming like that affects other people outside of this awareness.
    I'm curious, can you recreate this in data with actual figures from your real experiences? It would be telling to see the actual numbers if possible and if I didn't miss you posting them.

    I've noticed people I debate with, people I live with, neighbors and friends... The ones who have a hard time finding purpose, also have a harder time staying socially stable (like myself many times). Whether or not it's a spiritual purpose, I think it has everything to do with feeling needed, feeling like you have a purpose here, and that you can accomplish something, making a difference. Losing that is devastating for sure. Being materialistic, and not having enough to satisfy your wants, coupled with local community starter RBE's (possibly drastic lifestyle change) could be a bad thing yeah. Having a non-aggressive, spiritual belief, could persist sustainably with little or more of material things.

    The information on Reductionist Materialists is really interesting! I'd never even heard of such a classification until I read this!
    Thanks for sharing!
    Last edited by Derrick Denum; 06-08-2015 at 09:16 PM.
    If money were to disappear what would happen?
    "Awe, well cars would catch fire, manufacturing plants would simply collapse, food would instantly turn rotten, planes would fall from the sky, everything electronic would fail, water would instantly evaporate, every nuclear power plant in the world would simultaneously explode and the moon might just decide its had enough of this nonsense and take a dive..." - Derrick Denum

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derrick Denum View Post
    "Staunch disbelievers of the afterlife - Always the first to quit."

    That title could definitely get some people riled up. XD



    I'm curious, can you recreate this in data with actual figures from your real experiences? It would be telling to see the actual numbers if possible and if I didn't miss you posting them.

    I've noticed people I debate with, people I live with, neighbors and friends... The ones who have a hard time finding purpose, also have a harder time staying socially stable (like myself many times). Whether or not it's a spiritual purpose, I think it has everything to do with feeling needed, feeling like you have a purpose here, and that you can accomplish something, making a difference. Losing that is devastating for sure. Being materialistic, and not having enough to satisfy your wants, coupled with local community starter RBE's (possibly drastic lifestyle change) could be a bad thing yeah. Having a non-aggressive, spiritual belief, could persist sustainably with little or more of material things.

    The information on Reductionist Materialists is really interesting! I'd never even heard of such a classification until I read this!
    Thanks for sharing!
    You're welcome Derrick. Believe it or not, I have a very non aggressive form of spirituality. Like I said several times already, I know what I resonate with but I don't care what others believe because that's their own personal business. These people in here have had such a problem with me because I have logically explained to them how what they are doing is not real science, thereby knocking on their proverbial door of their own cognitive dissonance.

    I'm just not going to stand for it when I see people within TZM claiming that something is empirical when it most definitely is not and all their doing is refusing to investigate while resorting to name calling. Needless to say there's no way in hell that's science and like Albert Einstein said "Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." There is no excuse for what the people in here are doing or especially what that Ryan Johnson kid did at Z Day with his speech titled "The Scientific Method" which most definitely was not the real scientific method.

    As far as recreating the statistics (which can only be anecdotal, there have been a total of 5 people in our group who were staunch reductionist materialist's, all 5 of them quit and 1 of those people committed suicide. I know that is in no way empirical but at least I admitted that it isn't empirical whereas these people in here (who have chosen to be complete clowns) have tried to go as far as speaking for other people and then somehow trying to claim that THAT is empirical. THAT is absolute, total horseshit and I'm not gonna stand for that. Like I said before, that was at least one of the root central elements behind the Soviet Union and I'm gonna step up to ignorance like that, like these people are showing, because I'm not gonna watch these clowns create the next, much darker version of the USSR. As we move forward through time, I dare say into the near future, these people who are choosing to be clowns and especially this so-called "science" and particularly these so-called "scientists" that support this "science" are gonna become exposed. As that happens more and more, are going to have a lot more explaining to do as well as have an INCREASINGLY difficult time attempting to defend their position. I guarantee all of you that, you just wait and see.
    Last edited by Chris4629; 06-09-2015 at 10:10 AM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhythmAnarchy View Post
    "much more likely that it is the known irrational characteristics of terrestrial intelligence"

    I don't recall expressing anything regarding a science paradigm, past or present. Oh... Holes, sorry I get it, no shovel..nice..

    The method is the method, but then it has to be applied. That may be where the Holy part begins. Now when the machines start applying the method, irrational characteristics will be the first thing they pull the plug on. That experiment may answer that afterlife question.



    I like burnt toast. another slice pleze
    So basically to sum up everything up in in a nutshell, you're saying "All of this other evidence (in favor of the afterlife) is just ridiculous and should never even be entertained for a minute as science BECAUSE I SAY SO." Well, needless to say bud, that isn't real science because REAL science doesn't work that way. It doesn't work with you appointing yourself as the decider of information for other people.

    On a separate note, amidst the rambling, non-coherent post you left 2 days ago where you stated "My name is Caitlin Jenner" (Is that supposed to impress me?) you left a picture of what looks to be a porno shot, unless I'm mistaken. The Zeitgeist Movement means applying the scientific method for social concern. That is specifically what Peter Joseph said during an interview on RT. So what the hell does ANY of that have to do with applying the scientific method for social concern?? Why are you in here or how can you even consider yourself a member of The Zeitgeist Movement if these are what your values are?

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