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Thread: Staunch disbelievers of the afterlife - Always the first to quit.

  1. #11
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    Chris4629, you will need to come to terms with the fact that the vast majority of members in this movement doesn't believe in the afterlife.

    Also, most of the people who influence the movement doesn't believe in the afterlife, like:

    peter joseph, jacque fresco, george carlin, bill hicks, carl sagan, ben mcleish, matt berkowitz, and the list goes on and on.

    in fact, in 6 years of activism in the movement you were the only person i've met who believe in the afterlife.

    People here already told you that you can believe whatever you want, and that they don't have a problem with that, so why are you attacking members here for not believing what you believe?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL9000 View Post
    Chris4629, you will need to come to terms with the fact that the vast majority of members in this movement doesn't believe in the afterlife.

    Also, most of the people who influence the movement doesn't believe in the afterlife, like:

    peter joseph, jacque fresco, george carlin, bill hicks, carl sagan, ben mcleish, matt berkowitz, and the list goes on and on.

    in fact, in 6 years of activism in the movement you were the only person i've met who believe in the afterlife.

    People here already told you that you can believe whatever you want, and that they don't have a problem with that, so why are you attacking members here for not believing what you believe?

    Ok Hal9000, what do you base your findings on with supposedly (according to you) "the vast majority of members in this movement doesn't believe in the afterlife"? What actual hard evidence do you have to prove ANY of that??? Don't go around making a statement like that (as if somehow it's a factual statement) if you have NOTHING to back that statement up with and I want to see hard empirical statistics that prove what you're saying. Everything that I've said, I'll be more than happy to furnish all the sources from that come from real scientific study. The only thing I can't readily furnish to you is what I said about my own personal experience of dealing with people who were in our groups that quit. That's OK though because the way REAL science works is that it's willing to allow anecdotal evidence provided that it is supported by hard empirical evidence. That very empirical evidence comes from a study that proved that thoughts about disbelief of the afterlife have those areas of the brain lit up that illicit feelings of helplessness, despair and the urge to quit on life. I want to make it clear to everyone that that is NOT my opinion but FACTUAL INFORMATION. That study and the facts gathered from it stands by itself. You may not like that but if you don't then the only thing I can tell you is you don't like truth either and if you choose to avoid truth then how can you say you truly support The Zeitgeist Movement?

    You claimed above that Bill Hicks didn't believe in the afterlife yet he had this to say "All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is just a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves." Now that sure as hell sounds to me like Bill Hicks CERTAINLY DID believe in the afterlife. You also claimed (according to you) that Peter Joseph doesn't believe in the afterlife either, yet he's used this very quote in the Zeitgeist movies as well as used it before in lectures. I've also heard that Carl Sagan, right before he died had changed his position on this quite substantially so I (might) be able to pull up a quote with that.

    Anyway, who are you to speak for all these people??? Here it is right in front of your face Hal9000 and you can Google all of this if you want to. Also, just to let you know (not that I like this) but very normally when you go around making false statements about other people that can be easily proven false, it's called slander. That can set you up for a lawsuit from those people (just to let you know.) So hopefully those people or the people who represent them won't ever read what you said and choose to bring about a lawsuit against you.
    Last edited by Chris4629; 06-05-2015 at 12:01 PM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL9000 View Post
    Chris4629, you will need to come to terms with the fact that the vast majority of members in this movement doesn't believe in the afterlife.

    Also, most of the people who influence the movement doesn't believe in the afterlife, like:

    peter joseph, jacque fresco, george carlin, bill hicks, carl sagan, ben mcleish, matt berkowitz, and the list goes on and on.

    in fact, in 6 years of activism in the movement you were the only person i've met who believe in the afterlife.

    People here already told you that you can believe whatever you want, and that they don't have a problem with that, so why are you attacking members here for not believing what you believe?

    Ok Hal9000, what do you base your findings on with supposedly (according to you) "the vast majority of members in this movement doesn't believe in the afterlife"? What actual statistics do you have to prove ANY of that??? Don't go around making a statement like that (as if somehow it's a factual statement) if you have NOTHING to back that statement up with and I want to see hard empirical statistics that prove what you're saying. Everything that I've said, I'll be more than happy to furnish all the sources from that come from real scientific study. The only thing I can't readily furnish to you is what I said about my own personal experience of dealing with people who were in our groups that quit. I don't know how I can prove that to you but I was only using that in support of a very empirical study that proved that thoughts about disbelief of the afterlife have those areas of the brain lit up that illicit feelings of helplessness, despair and the urge to quit on life. I want to make it clear to everyone that that is NOT my opinion but FACTUAL INFORMATION. That study and the facts gathered from it stands by itself. You may not like that but if you don't then the only thing I can tell you is don't like truth either and if you choose to avoid truth then how can you say you truly support The Zeitgeist Movement?

    You claimed above that Bill Hicks didn't believe in the afterlife yet he had this to say "All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is just a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves." Now that sure as hell sounds to me like Bill Hicks CERTAINLY DID believe in the afterlife. You also claimed (according to you) that Peter Joseph doesn't believe in the afterlife either, yet he's used this very quote in the Zeitgeist movies as well as used it before in lectures. I've also heard that Carl Sagan, right before he died had changed his position on this quite substantially so I (might) be able to pull up a quote with that.

    Anyway, who are you to speak for all these people??? Here it is right in front of your face Hal9000 and you can Google all of this if you want to. Also, just to let you know (not that I like this) but very normally when you go around making false statements about other people that can be easily proven false, it's called slander. That can set you up for a lawsuit from those people (just to let you know.) So hopefully those people or the people who represent them won't ever read what you said and choose to bring about a lawsuit against you.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris4629 View Post
    I was only using that in support of a very empirical study that proved that thoughts about disbelief of the afterlife have those areas of the brain lit up that illicit feelings of helplessness, despair and the urge to quit on life. I want to make it clear to everyone that that is NOT my opinion but FACTUAL INFORMATION. That study and the facts gathered from it stands by itself.
    Ok, this is only one study, but it might be right in some cases and wrong in others. Many people here told you that they are activists for many years regardless of their belief in an afterlife.
    Even if this study was correct in all cases(which is not), does that mean that we should fool ourselves to believe in the afterlife just to make us feel better? this is absurd. we should go with evidence wherever it may lead us, even if the result is not convenient to us.
    Following your logic we might as well fool ourselves to believe in religion, if we found out that it makes us happier, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris4629 View Post
    You claimed above that Bill Hicks didn't believe in the afterlife yet he had this to say "All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is just a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves." Now that sure as hell sounds to me like Bill Hicks CERTAINLY DID believe in the afterlife. You also claimed (according to you) that Peter Joseph doesn't believe in the afterlife either, yet he's used this very quote in the Zeitgeist movies as well as used it before in lectures. I've also heard that Carl Sagan, right before he died had changed his position on this quite substantially so I (might) be able to pull up a quote with that.
    This quote is poetry, bill doesn't mean that literally. he was an atheist and was against any religious bullshit.
    Peter joseph is very rational, and clearly doesn't believe in god or an afterlife.

    Carl sagan - here is an interview with Charlie rose where he is dying from cancer... he says that he still doesn't believe in an afterlife:

    https://youtu.be/U8HEwO-2L4w?t=18m45s

    btw - have you read "the demon haunted world" by sagan?
    Last edited by HAL9000; 06-05-2015 at 06:01 PM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL9000 View Post
    Ok, this is only one study, but it might be right in some cases and wrong in others. Many people here told you that they are activists for many years regardless of their belief in an afterlife.
    Even if this study was correct in all cases(which is not), does that mean that we should fool ourselves to believe in the afterlife just to make us feel better? this is absurd. we should go with evidence wherever it may lead us, even if the result is not convenient to us.
    Following your logic we might as well fool ourselves to believe in religion, if we found out that it makes us happier, no?



    This quote is poetry, bill doesn't mean that literally. he was an atheist and was against any religious bullshit.
    Peter joseph is very rational, and clearly doesn't believe in god or an afterlife.

    Carl sagan - here is an interview with Charlie rose where he is dying from cancer... he says that he still doesn't believe in an afterlife:

    https://youtu.be/U8HEwO-2L4w?t=18m45s

    btw - have you read "the demon haunted world" by sagan?
    Give me a study that

    How the hell do you know that Bill didn't mean that literally?? Who the hell are you, once again to speak for him and Peter Joseph??? Like I said and once again, making statements like that can get you sued in a heartbeat. So exactly the thing that you've been accusing me of, you're the one who's doing it, not me. There's a term for that too, it's called hypocrisy.

    If you don't like one scientific study that comes out, what do you do? You just wait for one that comes out that fits how you want to think and feel. The problem with that is it's not based in truth.

  6. #16
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    @Chris4629 Oh me, oh my. Using 'your own words' "How the hell do you know?" "Who the hell are you?" Is THIS how to engage with people of different viewpoints? You'll not get very far.

    Now, please answer the questions I've asked you during this 'discussion (?), or does your lack of answers to my questions simply indicate 'flaws' in your assertions?

    And PLEASE…enough with the BOLD writing, it won't get your point through any better, its just annoying (and psychologically speaking, very telling).

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    @Chris4629 Oh me, oh my. Using 'your own words' "How the hell do you know?" "Who the hell are you?" Is THIS how to engage with people of different viewpoints? You'll not get very far.

    Now, please answer the questions I've asked you during this 'discussion (?), or does your lack of answers to my questions simply indicate 'flaws' in your assertions?

    And PLEASE…enough with the BOLD writing, it won't get your point through any better, its just annoying (and psychologically speaking, very telling).
    Ok then I'll say the same thing to you too then DroneBee. Putting words into someone else's mouth and claiming to speak for that person is called slander and is something that you can get sued big time for. You don't speak for anyone else other than yourself and I find it quite ironic that you guys are trying to accuse me of basically the same thing that you all are doing. The term for that is called hypocrisy. The only things that I'm stating as fact is all factual information because it's been proven to be factual information through REAL scientific research, the kind that Ryan Johnson and very apparently you all need quite some help with. I may be getting quite passionate (I guess as you pointed out) but at least I get passionate about the right things.

    Basically you guys have implied that you will make up your own science and speak for others as you see fit in whatever way they serve your purpose. The biggest problem with that is, if we follow that way of thinking, it won't take us to anything at all resembling a NLRBE but a complete nightmare for humankind. That played a huge part in the Soviet Union.

    I said this before, I'll say this again, I don't give a damn what your or anyone else's views are on the afterlife, that's your own personal business. I also do not ever believe in having a systematic version of somehow educating people that the afterlife exists. Like I said before, Even though (at least to me) there is an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting the existence of it (or I would say more accurately, that we live in a holographic universe and that the fundamental nature of all reality is consciousness which is energy, which Einstein said can't ever be destroyed) we still can't empirically prove it. Besides that, I don't ever believe in trying to force anyone to do anything they don't want to do as long as they're not hurting anyone. But when someone like the Ryan Johnson kid gets up on stage in front of a large audience that is then turned into a Youtube video for the whole world to see, while under the facade of "The Scientific Method" and says things that completely violates the tenets of the REAL scientific method, then that's wrong and like I said, I'm gonna step up to it.

    I also get upset with what you guys are doing (which is along the same lines of what the Ryan Johnson kid did) by trying to claim trying to claim to speak for someone else when you aren't that other person. You want to try to claim that what I'm doing is totalitarian-like, you need to take a real good look at what you guys are doing. The problems isn't with me here because I'm not the one who's basically claiming ownership over how someone else thinks, you guys have absolutely no business doing that.[/B]
    Last edited by Chris4629; 06-06-2015 at 07:12 AM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris4629 View Post
    I said this before, I'll say this again, I don't give a damn what your or anyone else's views are on the afterlife, that's your own personal business.
    I think we've covered everything here guys. Shall we move on? I guess if you want to keep going around in circles then go ahead but it's really going nowhere. There's plenty more Informative debates out there that we should be concentrating on. TZM needs all of us for this.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
    I think we've covered everything here guys. Shall we move on? I guess if you want to keep going around in circles then go ahead but it's really going nowhere. There's plenty more Informative debates out there that we should be concentrating on. TZM needs all of us for this.
    Hey I don't mind that at all but just understand that every single time someone within this movement decides to make an ass out of them self and either state something as fact that is in absolutely no way been proven scientifically a fact or very arrogantly think they can speak for someone else, I'm gonna step up and call them out for it. That's because that type of bullshit behavior will lead to anything but a NLRBE and would create one hell of a nightmarish world for everyone. The behavior that these guys (in here) are exhibiting would create a revised and even far more and destructive version of the Soviet Union if practiced on a mass scale. Since I put all my passion into this, I'm not ever gonna passively lay down for that type of [Inflammatory word removed. Please be civil and respectful][Inflammatory word removed. Please be civil and respectful][Inflammatory word removed. Please be civil and respectful][Inflammatory word removed. Please be civil and respectful]. If/when I see it, I'm gonna speak truth back to these people who are choosing to make fools of themselves and if I'm ever at a Z Day event and I hear another Ryan Johnson type kid making an ass of himself in the same destructive fashion, I'll be the first person in the crowd to stand up and start openly questioning them. I'm not doing all this work that I'm doing (and that I've already done) so that we end up creating an even sicker version of the Soviet Union.

  10. #20
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    No way Ernest, I'm still waiting for Chris4629 to answer the questions placed before him…(it may be a while, self absorption seems entrenched) ....after he 'self-reflects' upon the looking glass for a while….. …sorry…..

    For someone proclaiming 'they don't give a damn' he sure seems to ….(the 'approach' still needs some work in order to be effective though)
    Last edited by droneBEE; 06-07-2015 at 06:14 AM.

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