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Thread: Who would clean the toilets

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhythmAnarchy View Post
    Back to the question which is not really about cleaning toilets at all.
    This.

    It's important to realise that often when you are talking to people about the NLRBE concept that you are answering a question based on a set of assumptions that are not relevant to the world of the NLRBE.

    This question really is about ascertaining who will perform all the menial or unpleasant jobs that are currently covered by the existence of a low-waged working population. Further, the question really is "Why would anyone clean toilets by choice" and in the clarification of the question lies the seeds of the answer.

    The truth is: Nobody. Nobody wants to clean a public toilet. Nobody wants the job of cleaning a stranger's excrement up after them! But what is also true is that we have technical ability to design toilets that are auto-cleaning for sure.

    So the question really is: why do we currently have people doing that?

    The answer is two-fold and both are heavily symptomatic of the current, money oriented system that we are living under.

    For one thing, designing and rolling out automated toilet system to replace every public toilet currently in use is exceptionally expensive. The engineering, the materials, the maintenance (bear in mind also that a technical solution under the current system would be designed and built to a budget and so would inevitably require on-going maintenance which also adds to the cost). Contrast this to the relatively low-cost solution we have in having a poorly-paid human being to do the work. It's a no-brainer right?

    The other reason is because if we automate all the public toilet cleaning, why stop there? Who is to say we can't automate ALL the other menial task the low-waged perform now? And if we do THAT what are all of these people going to do for work? How will they make money to then spend on other goods and services to keep the monetary economy going?

    Now, take away the need for everything to be profitable. If we can technically create auto-cleaning toilets and there are no restrictions on doing that in principle, and there are no restrictions on how well we design them because there is no resource 'cost' in the monetary sense, which means we can design the best possible self-cleaning toilet that our ingenuity can muster, truly it would be a glory to behold!

    So, to go back to the original point, the answer to the question "Who will clean the toilets" is really to re-frame the question to be "Why would anyone clean the toilets".

    Our technical ability, though doubtlessly impressive is constantly being stymied by the demands of the monetary economy based on the idea of scarcity. Our technical ability is not a fraction of what it could be under an NLRBE.
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  2. #12
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    It's important to realise that often when you are talking to people about the NLRBE concept that you are answering a question based on a set of assumptions that are not relevant to the world of the NLRBE.

    This question really is about ascertaining who will perform all the menial or unpleasant jobs that are currently covered by the existence of a low-waged working population. Further, the question really is "Why would anyone clean toilets by choice" and in the clarification of the question lies the seeds of the answer.

    The truth is: Nobody. Nobody wants to clean a public toilet. Nobody wants the job of cleaning a stranger's excrement up after them! But what is also true is that we have technical ability to design toilets that are auto-cleaning for sure.

    So the question really is: why do we currently have people doing that?
    Thanks for the quote and I agree that the topic of a hypothetical question like "Who would clean the toilets" is really, who would do the dirty jobs.

    Replies can range from here to now.

    Cleaning will be automatic is to ambiguous but just search Self Cleaning








    Self cleaning dishes,




    In my view, the second part, "the Toilets" What is the purpose of a Toilet in the current economic game. Whereas, in the vague and incomplete NLRBE system Waste = Food. If all the resources are to be tracked they should be tracked all the way. You would be upcycling everything you consume. Being a resource, after an auto cleanup, dry and powder (optional), no TP required. Upcycled, for the appropriate distribution through the upcycle system, fertilizer, health tracking, fuel and the rest of that.


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    Last edited by RhythmAnarchy; 09-03-2014 at 09:32 PM.
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  3. #13
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    Ok, if you want to get some idea of what might actually clean our toilets and do many, many other things, such as fix or maintain the plumbing, clean roof gutters, do roof repairs, mow the lawn, do gardening, vacuum, make your bed for you, build homes, grow and harvest crops, function as a means of transportation, shape itself into bridges, etc., then watch this:

    Last edited by Neil; 09-24-2014 at 12:44 PM.
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  4. #14
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    the answer is: no one knows. TZM has no real political strategy to critique. People here will say 'robots' which isn't an answer.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoPigeon View Post
    the answer is: no one knows.
    We already have self-cleaning toilets:

    Self-Cleaning Toilets: How Do They Work? - HowStuffWorks

    These are videos of some examples that show what we already have now:



    [NOTE: this forum won't allow more than one video posted at a time; as a work-around, I'm posting the rest separately after this.]

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoPigeon View Post
    TZM has no real political strategy to critique.
    The solution to society's problems are technical, not political.

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoPigeon View Post
    People here will say 'robots' which isn't an answer.
    Sure it is. Why don't you think it isn't? That makes no sense.
    Last edited by Neil; 11-27-2014 at 03:30 AM.
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  10. #20
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    Scarcity, as suggested here being one of willingness to perform toilet hygiene maintenance, is an issue worth considering even when the working assumption is that right macro organization takes it off the list of primary concerns. One of the strengths of monetary systems needing attention when they are replaced is that they clarify relative work values and given their abstraction, have the ability to equilibrate both supplies and desires.

    Yuk factor and low status are reasons for selecting this job as an example for discussion. There are processes, like the Walden Pond system, that use auctions to assign relative value (by hours per week) to all jobs such that people who value their spare time more highly can bid on undesirable (or scarce skill) jobs that may require much less than full time to be enough. The auctions are sufficient to adapt work requirements to varying needs and even provide guidance for education and immigration choices. I have seen instances of this method work well over long periods of time as an effective substitute for money in class-free communities ranging to hundreds of people. The administration is naturally apolitical requiring execution transparency only (rather than trust or special qualification) and is allocated simply by being included in the list of jobs that are up for bidding.

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