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Thread: Who would clean the toilets

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    I'm convinced that as long as we're under capitalism, we'd might as well let it be free market rather than central planning (aka state capitalism), because free market is progressive while central planning is regressive and not very effective. I think that free market capitalism, if allowed to proceed unhindered, is bound to make capitalism become obsolete.
    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    I'm not as convinced.....because I believe we already have 'Central Planning' or State Capitalism' or something more akin to a twisted version of Mussolini's 'Corporatism'.....which has 'prospered' immensely under the 'guise' of so-called Free Market Capitalism

    How Free is the alleged Free market?

    Go ahead....Do you have an idea or product you'd like to SHARE with the World?

    "Try" to join this so-called Free market, try to find an existing 'ethics' Rule Book, try to find any human compassion within it ......go ahead....try......
    Hey guys, if we have a free market where the consumer dictates everything, then who is to stop corporations from dumping waste wherever? Are you REALLY going to pay more for a product because you believe the company is more eco-responsible?

    What about companies that put all sorts of crap into food? Are we to vote with our wallets?

    Free-market capitalism works great in many ways, but also has many grave shortcomings.

    There must be a middle way between two extremes.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by SophicDrippins View Post
    Hey guys, if we have a free market where the consumer dictates everything, then who is to stop corporations from dumping waste wherever? Are you REALLY going to pay more for a product because you believe the company is more eco-responsible?

    What about companies that put all sorts of crap into food? Are we to vote with our wallets?

    Free-market capitalism works great in many ways, but also has many grave shortcomings.

    There must be a middle way between two extremes.
    Answers; Some will, some won't pay more for quality

    We grow and/or harvest the majority of our own food...so that is voting w/ our own $, no?

    Free market capitalism exists between 2 people at best.....place govt, society and the wealthy into the equation and all hell breaks loose.....with the GREEDY in control....
    HAL9000 and Ernest like this.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by SophicDrippins View Post
    Are you REALLY going to pay more for a product because you believe the company is more eco-responsible?

    What about companies that put all sorts of crap into food? Are we to vote with our wallets?
    Most people are hypocrites, they want clean environment and good working conditions but at same time cheap stuff... it doesn't work that way.
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  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by droneBEE View Post
    Answers; Some will, some won't pay more for quality

    We grow and/or harvest the majority of our own food...so that is voting w/ our own $, no?

    Free market capitalism exists between 2 people at best.....place govt, society and the wealthy into the equation and all hell breaks loose.....with the GREEDY in control....
    Quote Originally Posted by HAL9000 View Post
    Most people are hypocrites, they want clean environment and good working conditions but at same time cheap stuff... it doesn't work that way.
    I don't think there is anyone who would agree that this is how chickens should be treated, but very few are willing to pay more for chicken. There is really no way to tell which chickens have been mistreated when you're at the grocery store and even if you did decide to pay more, how do you know you're supporting a good cause?

    Chicken factory farmer speaks out



    That is where free-market capitalism doesn't work and some things have to be regulated by some government.

    Name/Title, Total Cash, Total Compensation
    Donnie Smith, Chief Executive Officer, $4,268,907, $10,192,912
    Donnie King, President North American Operations, $2,819,553, $7,097,324
    Noel White, President Poultry, $2,558,865, $5,103,570
    John Tyson, Chairman of the Board, $3,377,693, $9,433,052

    So how about those guys get half the money and the savings applied to better conditions for chickens while prices remain the same?

    And that is where I don't understand people because, invariably, some conservative will come out defending the executives when he himself isn't one and never made anything close to that amount of money. I don't understand what skin he would have in the game.

    Elderly, children, poor, sick, and animals need defense, but executives are anything but weak and helpless requiring the defense from middleclass baby boomer Ditto Heads. I don't understand.

    I'm really not against people making extraordinary amounts of money; what I'm against is people making extraordinary amounts of money without doing anything extraordinary, but rather quite the opposite. If Donnie Smith could ensure that every chicken led a happy life and he cut the prices of chicken in half and all workers got a raise, then he would be worth every penny of $10 mil.

    Tyson Foods employees earn $41,000 annually on average, or $20 per hour, which is 39% lower than the national salary average of $61,000 per year. https://www.careerbliss.com/tyson-foods/salaries/

    Does it take talent and $10 mil worth of work to shaft people and abuse animals?
    Ernest, droneBEE and HAL9000 like this.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by SophicDrippins View Post
    And that is where I don't understand people because, invariably, some conservative will come out defending the executives when he himself isn't one and never made anything close to that amount of money. I don't understand what skin he would have in the game.

    Elderly, children, poor, sick, and animals need defense, but executives are anything but weak and helpless requiring the defense from middleclass baby boomer Ditto Heads. I don't understand.

    I'm really not against people making extraordinary amounts of money; what I'm against is people making extraordinary amounts of money without doing anything extraordinary, but rather quite the opposite. If Donnie Smith could ensure that every chicken led a happy life and he cut the prices of chicken in half and all workers got a raise, then he would be worth every penny of $10 mil.
    Exactly it don't make any sense to me either. The whole Political/Economic landscape is misleading & nonrepresentative of Most people today because people are usually just following others who are in a much better position than them like in your example. The so called leaders in these type of movements are always people with some type of higher power than the regular everyday folk who are fighting for these ideas. It's like the people who share your Political/Economic views should be living the same type of lifestyle as your own and not be someone who is a lot higher in the Economic ladder or supports a lot of different Political ideas that you don't?

    But today we just lump huge sections of the population into single Political/Economic sides like they all fit nicely together with the same type of advantages/disadvantages? Like Coal Miners in Appalachia or SteelWorkers in the Midwest live the same type of lifestyle has Politicians or Corporate Managers? How can they possibly have the same concerns regarding their futures? We only understand & see what's in front of us. What is relevant to our daily lives.

    Some people can claim that they are in solidarity with others but all they're really saying is that other people better sympathize with what they hold as important which is often just beneficial to them and not very much to others. And this seems like it's good enough for people. To be able to be part of something they feel they will reap some benefits from but never really have anything meaningful to show from it in the long-run. Because I think on the primary level, no matter who you are or where you land on the Political/Economic scale, each of us are just looking out for our own best interest above anything else. And this becomes more dangerous the more further up you are on this ladder looking down on the rest of us.
    droneBEE and HAL9000 like this.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
    Exactly it don't make any sense to me either. The whole Political/Economic landscape is misleading & nonrepresentative of Most people today because people are usually just following others who are in a much better position than them like in your example. The so called leaders in these type of movements are always people with some type of higher power than the regular everyday folk who are fighting for these ideas. It's like the people who share your Political/Economic views should be living the same type of lifestyle as your own and not be someone who is a lot higher in the Economic ladder or supports a lot of different Political ideas that you don't?

    But today we just lump huge sections of the population into single Political/Economic sides like they all fit nicely together with the same type of advantages/disadvantages? Like Coal Miners in Appalachia or SteelWorkers in the Midwest live the same type of lifestyle has Politicians or Corporate Managers? How can they possibly have the same concerns regarding their futures? We only understand & see what's in front of us. What is relevant to our daily lives.

    Some people can claim that they are in solidarity with others but all they're really saying is that other people better sympathize with what they hold as important which is often just beneficial to them and not very much to others. And this seems like it's good enough for people. To be able to be part of something they feel they will reap some benefits from but never really have anything meaningful to show from it in the long-run.
    I think what the Ditto Heads are supporting is the chance to make that kind of money, but I think what they don't realize is that chance isn't anything anyone has control over. They think if you put in the work, then you deserve it, but lots of people work hard and don't get a payout like that. So, it's more about luck than anything.

    I've been told that the original idea for the government of the US was for regular Joes to serve for a while and then go back to his previous trade because they knew that career-politicians are no different than aristocracy. Sometime later it got all muddled up and people began equating "experience" to "knowing what you're doing" when actually it's more of "being out of touch." I mean, if you make campaign promises and the people elect you, then why is experience required in order to keep the promises? The job of a politician is merely making decisions... it isn't brain surgery.

    Because I think on the primary level, no matter who you are or where you land on the Political/Economic scale, each of us are just looking out for our own best interest above anything else. And this becomes more dangerous the more further up you are on this ladder looking down on the rest of us.
    That's the irony of this because life would be better for the rich if the poor were paid higher. You can't give someone too much money who always spend 150% of his income. What the lower-people deserve to get paid has nothing to do with the reasoning... it's in the rich person's interest for the poor to be paid well because it comes right back in profits which the poor willingly leveraged. It goes back to the Henry Ford story of why he decided to pay $5 a day because he figured they needed money to buy his cars... which were probably on credit and the banks lent the money because workers had a good paying job. So Ford collected all the sales from money supplied by the banks and he only had to pay each worker $5 a day.
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  7. #147
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    Our chicks cost about .50 cents each, the love they receive is free .

    We typically purchase a mix batch (cockerels/hens) between 30-50, slaughtering 'all' the cocks after about 6 months of fattening, which then go into the freezer. On average our Hens give us eggs (one each, every day and a half or so) for about five years and are allowed to live out their days and die naturally on the farm. TBH; We don't have the heart to eat our friends....BUT ROOSTERS are A-Holes so they are consumed with glee....

    This thread has taken some strange, but interesting turns, no?

    Under capitalism...we have created a 'purposely designed' system of hierarchy, so we should not be surprised by the hypocrites we've assisted along the journey .....

    The wealthy could not have reached the heights they've achieved without all of us assisting them.... regardless of the nonsense we are conned into accepting from the wealthy and their wannabes.....
    Ernest likes this.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by SophicDrippins View Post
    That's the irony of this because life would be better for the rich if the poor were paid higher. You can't give someone too much money who always spend 150% of his income. What the lower-people deserve to get paid has nothing to do with the reasoning... it's in the rich person's interest for the poor to be paid well because it comes right back in profits which the poor willingly leveraged. It goes back to the Henry Ford story of why he decided to pay $5 a day because he figured they needed money to buy his cars... which were probably on credit and the banks lent the money because workers had a good paying job. So Ford collected all the sales from money supplied by the banks and he only had to pay each worker $5 a day.
    I mean WTF!?

    How much Money does one person need to live comfortably? When Rich people are so focused on just making even more Money, what does that do to their Psychology? It turns into Psychosis, No? I mean just because people can become Millionaires & Billionaires in this System. Shouldn't there be some Rules in place to mitigate this imbalance of Wealth & Power? We see all the negative issues & consequences when this is allowed to happen. But instead we do the Opposite and cheer & admire this behavior further contributing to their Psychotic behavior and motivating them even more to strive for even More Unnecessary Wealth?

    When will people start taking this seriously? At the Trillionaire level? Quadrillion... ?
    droneBEE and HAL9000 like this.

  9. #149
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    > chance isn't anything anyone has control over.

    I'm not so sure about that. :-)

    (Whilst I do agree luck plays a big part in ones life and fortune, and that many people do think they are more skilled than lucky.)


    Lets say you had the chance to move to a new area, which area do you choose ?

    You can guess that one area is going to be more lucky for you than another, but how do you know in advance which !

    I'm reminded having looked back in my life and studied the history of where I was and when, that if I had stayed in a certain area, or was a year older or younger, my fortunes could be radically different to what they are today, simply because I would have been in the right place at the right time.

    Instead of often in the wrong place at the wrong time !

    As such I've put a lot of study into, could I figure out in advance, where the right place and time is, and put myself there instead of the wrong place !

    I dunno yet if I'm in the right place, but I did choose it carefully on the basis that it held out better potential than everywhere else !

    Only time will tell on that one I guess.


    But if we gain more information on what helps develop success, we might thus be more able to put ourselves into those places and times when we can exploit that benefit.


    I've noticed for example that successful companies that are built upon the initial work of a small team of people, have to generally rely on simple luck for all those folk to be in the same place at the same time.

    Kinda easier online, but still hard to bump into the right person..

    Reminds me of:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation

    Related link:

    https://research.fb.com/three-and-a-...of-separation/

    As such, I reckon that improving even further the degrees of separation one finds on Facebook, will have a profound impact on folk being in the right place at the right time and enable a great deal of progress as teams of people get together and solve problems.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
    How much Money does one person need to live comfortably?
    Whatever amount it is, that should be the "zero" mark for everyone. It's like in the game Monopoly where everyone starts with a certain amount of money. Once starvation has been eliminated and everyone can at least live comfortably, then the rich can get as rich as they want, for all I care.

    When Rich people are so focused on just making even more Money, what does that do to their Psychology? It turns into Psychosis, No?
    It's an addiction and competition. Some folks have a mental illness and some are just being competitive among their rich peers. If all your friends have $30 billion and you only have $5 billion, you may feel inadequate.

    I mean just because people can become Millionaires & Billionaires in this System. Shouldn't there be some Rules in place to mitigate this imbalance of Wealth & Power?
    Taxes. Back in the 50s the tax rate was 90% on the very rich.

    We see all the negative issues & consequences when this is allowed to happen. But instead we do the Opposite and cheer & admire this behavior further contributing to their Psychotic behavior and motivating them even more to strive for even More Unnecessary Wealth?
    Yep.

    When will people start taking this seriously? At the Trillionaire level? Quadrillion... ?
    More is never enough. Like the alcoholic says, "1 is too many and 12 isn't enough."
    droneBEE likes this.

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